just_another_person'Shame on you!' Dems erupt on House floor as Mike Johnson orders recess despite shutdown
TropicalDingdongDemocratic leadership in this moment is incredibly bad.
CorkyskogOh yes, how dare they shutdown the house floors… Oh wait.
A shutdown is the best case scenario for dems right now.
I would argue it could be the best case scenario for Trump as well.
If we’re talking purely politics (and not the actual suffering Trump’s policies have and will cause), not shutting down the government in march was a huge win for Dems and a huge fail for Trump.
I think Im on the other side, a shutdown is better for democrats except now is the worst time for it. American memories are apparently nonexistent, if this were to happen a lot closer to an election you would have a lot of fresh memories of government employees looking to remove republicans from office because they stopped paychecks from coming in. But given 6 months everyone will forget about it
Unless the government is still shut down
My fear is Trump would use a government shutdown to further his authoritarian powers. And he would feel empowered to do so because of the “radical left that shut the government down”.
It could go either way, which means it is a risk to shut the government down. It’s easy for Lemmy to say we should take the risk, but the Democratic Party is much more diverse politically than republicans. Their people will rally around them no matter what.
So, you’re worried that he’s going to do exactly what he’s already going to do, either way? And your solution is to preemptively give Republicans everything they want, without any concessions?
You sir, are a political mastermind. /s
No, my fear is that he has restraints right now that will be removed when the government shuts down. Whether these restraints are from actual government functions, or the restraints are from his followers disapproving of his actions.
You sir, are a political mastermind. /s
It’s crazy how quick people become jerks on here.
What restraints are those? Who’s stopping him from doing whatever he wants, right now?
And how did caving to his agenda the last time, do anything to slow him down? You understand that voting to approve this budget will further his agenda, right? The things that are in that legislation will hurt everyone in the country. Passing it, is bad.
He is going to do anything he wants, anyway. Why would it benefit anyone for Democrats to validate his agenda, by voting for it? They need to fight him…not keep giving him what he wants.
There’s political pressure he feels from his own party. If republicans turn on him, he won’t be able to do as much. He needs republicans to win the midterms. If he does that, there will be nothing else holding him back.
If his party goes back to supporting him and hating democrats for shutting down the government, he will be given a much longer leash.
I don’t specifically know if the government running prevents Trump from doing more, but I could see a scenario where it provides some friction. And he will use this as an excuse to fire even more people or do a lot more.
Just because it doesn’t seem like it could get any worse doesn’t mean it can’t get worse.
Doubt [x]
Snark [🙃]
What are you even talking about? Your imaginary scenario is completely backwards. Trump isn’t feeling any “pressure” to keep any of those brown-nosers happy. They’re the ones under pressure to give Trump everything he demands. They aren’t going to stand up to him. All they’ve done so far, is rubber stamp everything he’s asked for.
That’s why the Democrats need to do it. Not one Republican will. Not when it comes to their vote. If the Democrats don’t stop this shit from going through, when they have the opportunity…then nothing will. This is one of the few moments when Republicans don’t have enough votes on their own. They need Democrats to sign on.
That means this is one of the rare times when Democrats have some leverage to undo some of the damage Trump has done. And your advice is to just roll over, and give up? What the actual fuck, dude?
By his own party I meant voters. He would very much like to maintain the house and senate in 2026.
Buddy, his voters don’t matter. What exactly are they going to do, that changes anything? At this rate, as long as he keeps getting what he wants from Congress…there aren’t going to be any more elections.
Democrats completely shit the bed the last time they had an opportunity to fight back. If they do it again, we all lose. Republicans can already pass most things without them. This is one of the few times when they can’t. They cannot drop the ball again.
What exactly are they going to do, that changes anything?
Show up in record numbers in the 2026 midterms.
Sure. As long as Trump lets them even happen…and as long as he doesn’t cheat. He is currently holding all the cards. Which is why it is so important that Democrats stand in his way, every chance they get.
It did.
- Spring wasn’t close to any elections so brinksmanship then would have been forgotten.
- Elections are like 6 weeks away. The may not be the biggest but they are elections and people won’t forget the shutdown.
- the big midterm elections are still a year away, but the federal budget is an annual thing. This years brinksmanship will be long forgotten by then but there’s a new “opportunity “ every year
You strike me as the type that would argue over anything though.
I think things are much more complicated than most people on Lemmy want to admit. They want to throw the baby out with the bath water cause the leadership isn’t doing exactly what they want. When in reality, it is a much more complicated decision filled with landmines no matter which you choose.
Meanwhile they also aren’t looking back 6 months ago when they were complaining about the same leaders and the same decisions. And in the end, it was the leadership that made the right decision, not the community.
How do you get around with that fence post up your butt?
Definitely not as well as you do on your high horse.
I’m in the mud, bud. My flaws are on full display every second of every day. But I can at least tell what’s right from wrong.
Where’s the /s?
The only people that were really happy with the budget approval in March were Republicans. Everyone else was either livid because Democrats gave up one of the few bargaining chips they had or resigned to the fact Democrats can’t do anything substantive and any day we’re not under martial law is a blessing.
Everyone on here was livid with Democrats.
What happened after? Trump’s approval rating went from net 0 to net -9. Would this have happened if Democrats shut the government down?
I don’t think so, but who knows. I think Trump and Republicans would play the victim (which they are great at) and anything bad that came after would be blamed on Dems, including any damage from the tariffs.
Right now we’re in a situation where conservative voters are not happy with the administration. There are pros and cons to shutting the government down, and people on here do not consider the cons at all.
I’ve seen polls that put Democrats approval rating even lower than the GOP. My guess is because too many are treating this as another Republican presidency and not pushing the envelope or trying new angles to obstruct Trump or bring awareness to the issues. IMO even if the Democrats cave in a few days the waves of this standoff will be much bigger and more people will take notice.
There’s a reason Trump hasn’t just told every employee to just stay home and for every building to be locked down. He doesn’t have the political capital or big business backing to do something so massively damaging to the economy.
Shut it down and never reopen
This and unironically. Keep it shutdown till after the mid-terms.
Say you’ll only open the government if Trump steps down and calls for new elections.
At minimum demand the full and unredacted Epstein files
Yes!! Right?
MAKE SOME POLITICAL HAY YOU INCOMPETENT NINCOMPOOPS!!
90% of Democrats and 82% of MAGAs want the files
This is precisely what good leadership from Dems would be in this moment.
Instead they are getting clowned on after claiming to be “getting through” to Trump in negotiations.
It’s truly pathetic how hard Dems are working to maintain the facade that they aren’t controlled opposition and the government is still somehow functioning. If they worked half as hard for the working class they’d never lose another election in our lifetimes.
Only if they don’t cave in the first week. They need to clearly articulate the demands to American people and draw a line in the sand.
If they cave without anything the optics would be terrible.
I wish I had any trust that we have any representation and this would happen.
I think the goal of some of these lemmites (lemmings, lemmors?) is to push all the moderates out of the Democratic Party so we’re left with only the truest most liberal of politicians. And from there, we will win 20 senate seats and never see the presidency again.
If democrats aren’t alienating the majority of Americans, they aren’t the party for us!
Huh?
Yes, there are definitely accelerationists (both tankies and useful idiots) who just want to watch things burn.
But this? I can see the logic. But there is zero chance that resolution would have passed and this is just republicans shutting the government down a few hours early rather than bickering until the last minute.
For DNC leadership that insists on decorum and tradition? Yeah, that is atrocious and horrible and an even greater sin than not properly clapping for someone. But it doesn’t matter to anyone else. This is now a war of the news and social media and not one that is going to be solved while in session.
And all this comes across as is… weakness.
exactly
Hence the comment about the worthlessness of current leadership. Shutting the government. down shuts down project 2025. It forces the gestapo to work unpaid. That might last a week, but two, three weeks? That shit doesn’t fly when you are deployed to fucking Chicago and you are now paying for shit out of pocket.
Democratic leaders are cowards who are afraid to wield force, and they have the perfect opportunity here to show the incompetence and bankruptcy of this administration, along with extracting results.
Schumer and Jeffery’s are working to do the opposite. Worthless.
We’ll definitely agree to disagree, but I said what I said and your comment makes me feel no different.
In a time when Republicans should be in the hot seat, liberals (which I assume you are), are instead focusing on how shitty democrats are. In every post I see about what republicans are doing wrong, the first comment is to shit on Democrats.
This is how we give republicans the midterms.
This is how we give republicans the midterms.
&
liberals (which I assume you are)
Well you are clearly an idiot who doesn’t understand the definition of terms or have the remotest context for their comments.
The will for Democrats to meet Republicans halfway is precisely why Democrats lost this past elections.
You want to call me… ME?!? liberal? Bruh, you are literally advocating a liberal position. Get a clue. Don’t even bother showing up to the comments if you don’t know what words mean.
Well you are clearly an idiot
Relax dude. I’m a real person.
I see now that you are a conservative who wants democrats to fail. I’ve have been seeing countless liberals on here that want the same thing. It’s hard to tell the difference these days.
Dude you are literally advocating a liberal position. Stop using words where you don’t use their meaning.
Are you high? I am not disputing that at all. I am liberal. I thought you were as well based on the fact that all the liberals on here have been shitting on democrats lately.
You do understand that liberalism is a conservative ideology?
This is what I mean when I call you an idiot:
> An unlearned, ignorant, or simple person, as distinguished from the educated; an ignoramus.
You don’t know what words mean.
Please enlighten me. In American politics liberals are left/democrats. Conservatives are right/republicans.
Saying a liberals and conservatives are the same thing is literally not how I have ever heard anybody talk… unless you are referring to terminology in different countries.
Either way, I’m fine being an idiot. I can always learn. Most people that are assholes are stuck that way.
Look at your ratios dude. You walked into a politics forum not knowing your ass from a hole in the ground, not even knowing the barest definitions of terms.
Its not my job to educate you, but you can start with these two books:
Howard Zinn, a peoples history
Noam Chomskey, hedgemony or survival
If you don’t understand what a liberal is, in this day and age, you have a hole in your brain.
wetbeardhairsWhen they shut the government down, there is still a huge pile of money to be dispersed. It just closes down some offices. Trump has stolen many billions from congressionally allocated uses. That money will pay the gestapo while everyone else eats ramen until the government reopens
Trump isn’t the type to pay people. He deliberately tries to renege on debts owed, just to feel like a brilliant deal artisan. He especially doesn’t care about poors nor military service members, which ICE somehow Venn Diagrams on top of the racism.
This isn’t his plan. It’s the long orchestrated project 2025 shit. They want to shutdown the normal government but keep ICE running so they can do their kristalnacht without your normal non-fascist govt employees getting in the way with things like injunctions
JaysynSure, the money exists, but the people that cut those paychecks have been furloughed.
🇵🇸antifa_ceoAh the enlightened centrist take that has been leading to loss after loss in campaigns.
This is true. Centrists are like “we need to.move right to win the election” and then don’t win the election. Then they blame the left, who don’t have power nor were appealed to
I’m in no way saying we need to take a moderate/centrist approach. I am saying this is a moment when Republicans are vulnerable, and all this community wants to do is bag on the Democratic Party. That is how we always lose.
They’re bagging on the Democratic leadership who are once again not doing anything to actually take advantage of that vulnerability…
You don’t always need to take action to take advantage of a vulnerability.
How do you think the Republicans became so powerful in this country?
By being nice and letting their ideological enemies flourish?
I think they flourish because their voters do not generally care about hypocrisy and logic.
The Republicans feed their base with wins regularly. Sure they don’t care about the hypocrisy or whatever as well, but it’s also that they are actually doing things for them. Now these things don’t really change their lives but it sure makes them feel good.
When do the Dems do this?
My point is that democratic voters are so quick to abandon democrats when they aren’t behaving exactly as they want. Republicans don’t care.
You are missing my point entirely. I’m addressing your point - it’s just dumb. No party is owed voters - they must work to do things to get those voters to support them. The Republicans do this all the time. The Dems do not. That’s it. If they want people to vote for them, they need to have a compelling platform that actually gets people in their base excited - like how the Republicans do.
Republicans see their base being transphobic and they throw them a bone on that. They see them hating immigrants and they throw them a bone on that. It serves their interests sure, but it also keeps their base in line and willing to support them on the more heinous things that just hurt them in the long run.
By contrast the Dems see their base wanting things like healthcare or to stop funding genocide and what do they do? They ignore it and double down on the Republican talking points to try and pull some of their voters away rather than just run on the policy that would make them extremely popular and a shoe in to win elections.
Do you see what I am saying yet?