Local NPR station has BBC World Service on HD2 so I've been trying to get hold of a decent car stereo for ages, I go to best buy, last time I checked sometime last year about half their radios could do HD but this time they've got no HD radios At All

Just about to leave, bloke comes over asks if I've got any questions, I ask him if they've got any HD radios, he doesn't know what it is but tries to bluff his way through and tries to sell me a subscription service to that pay radio thing that you keep getting pestered about if you've ever bought a car from a dealership

try to buy an HD radio on amazon and they'll sell you an AM/FM radio that doesn't even have RDS but does have an HD (meaning 600 pixels tall) screen

Go on Crutchfield who actually know what HD radio is; that'll be four hundred dollars please and thank you, and no you can't have buttons or a volume knob

this is all because I tried to have steering wheel controls For Safety and they didn't work with my Kenwood and my choices are spend sixty bucks on a box to make two wires talk to one wire, spend four hundred bucks on a fancypants radio that's fancypants enough to listen to two wires, or spend sixty bucks on a How Bad Could It Be android radio

So I've got an android radio coming

I learned early on that there's no point at all buying expensive car stereos

Spent two hundred quid on a Clarion CD player and soon replaced it with the twenty quid one out of Aldi that could play MP3 CD-R, CD-RW, CD+R, CD+RW and probably slices of toast if you asked it nice, just how like the cheap DVD players didn't care about regions or copied discs, they were cheap because they Didn't Give A Fuck

I'm trying the sixty buck android head unit aye, I did try and return the fifty buck one last year because it didn't do RDS and made my speakers go THONK every time I turned it on, but I like a gamble

Spend half a grand on a fancy car stereo if you want but the speakers are still gonna be pointed at your fucking ankles
I'm sure there's an audible difference between the commodity $2 amp-in-a-chip in a $50 car stereo and the fancy $10 amp-in-a-chip in the $400 one but it's not a difference that my ankles are gonna hear over the vroom vroom go machine

Update, the android radio did arrive, it was sixty bucks, it came with all the wires, a backup camera, TWO infrared remote controls (one normal one and one shaped like strap-to-your-steering-wheel in case your car's so old it doesn't have volume controls on the wheel (like mine)) and it's Fine

It advertised itself as having RDS, it has VERY RUDIMENTARY RDS, meaning it'll sometimes show the name of the station but not the title or artist.

It can talk to my aftermarket bolted-on steering wheel controls OK, and does volume and calls and mode switch and seek but weirdly NOT pause/play.

It's not actually an android radio as in a wee android computer with an amp and a shite radio chip, it's actually the new thing where this is a pretty basic not-android computer but you plug your phone in and all the crap on your phone comes up on the radio screen, which I guess does mean I don't have to download podcasts to two machines. It says it can do it wirelessly but I haven't figured that out yet.

It sounds... fine. I had a Kenwood in before, the Kenwood probably would've sounded audibly better than this if it were plugged into speakers that weren't set into steel and aimed at my ankles, but it's in a car ffs, you can spend two grand on a sound system in your car and it'll never sound better than a tenth of that spent in your house. It sounds the same as the Kenwood.

I wish the radio were a bit better but honestly, like... for sixty bucks, it's really, really hard to grumble.

I might stick one in the old car I'm trying to sell, and add $500 to the price.

So yeah another data point on "Cheap car stereos are better" theory

Radio update, I've got a backup camera now. Came with the stereo. It's not a *good* backup camera but come on, sixty bucks.

Wiring it in was really easy. Ground, RCA wire for video, and tap into the reversing light for power so it comes on when I pop it into reverse. Easy peasy.

Finding a place for the wires to live, now, that was the tricky part 😅

Important not to listen to the internet too much when you're trying to do anything involving wiring
Like, don't go bloody soldering wires to wires, come on. Solder wires to lugs, or crimp connectors to wires, or crimp wires together into a single connector. It's not the early-aughts, good crimpers don't cost a couple hundred bucks anymore, the $30 sets are actually good now
just don't go getting one of those horrible all-in-one General Electrical Tools that reckons it can cut, crimp and strip, made out of like, stamped metal with slipped-on plastic grips, like in this pic, these are awful, you'll have a Bad Time

Different connectors need different crimpers but for installing a stereo this is all you need, see the red yellow blue dots for different sized connectors

In the arcade yesterday I was saying 🦝 Where are my crimps, where've you hidden my crimps

🦘 here, here are your crimps

🦝 no those are the fancy crimps for like JSTs or whatever, delicate fine little things, I'm bodging in a new marquee light, I need the ones that teenagers use for putting in a car stereo, I need Everybody's First Crimps, I need my Dickhead Crimps

🐹 I gotta crimp a connector onto a wire, I've got like ten different sorts of pliers, I'll just

🦝 no

🐹 surely ONE of these will

🦝 you gonna make me write a whole damn thread on how to crimp wire connectors?

Radio bullshit continued: the new radio has shite reception, even with an antenna booster, even with a new antenna, it's just horrific.

But, streaming radio on my phone and through to the head unit, great stuff. Now I need a better mobile provider with a more modern data plan (Dan from ten years ago thought a gig a month was PLENTY THANKS)

Figured I'd use radio.garden but there's no carplay support At All in that, so I went on awoke adventure through F-Droid and the google app spyware market as recommended by radio-browser.info (which is a cool site that you should check out), here are my notes for anyone trying to do the same thing:

Transistor on F-Droid - shows in carplay menu, works, but does not allow station switching via seek buttons, just seeking back and forth through the stream, so to change channels I gotta fuck with a touchscreen which, like, Obviously Not. Open source, no ads, all very nice, could ask the dev hey can we have an option to go between stations with the seek buttons but the dev preemptively says yo this is a one man show don't ask, which, fair do's at least he's upfront about it

radiowave - shit

radiodroid - no carplay at all

Tunefm - carplay, no menu button (start from phone), buttons change stations, shows song names and album art on the stereo, basically the carplay bit is brilliant but the phone side is a shit app full of ads/spyware. But I'll never look at the phone app anyway and my phone blocks all the trackers so this is probably the best one so far

(yeah I was getting by on a gigabyte a month just fine, it was like a tenner, pay as you go kinda thing, each extra gig was an extra tenner, it worked Fine, I just downloaded all my maps and pods and stuff ahead of time on home wifi and didn't look at shit websites while on mobile data)
(the company was called Ting and for ages they were great. If something went wrong I'd ring them up and a guy would pick up on the second ring and say hello and I'd stutter a bit and wonder if he was a human and yeah, he was human, an actual person picking up the phone, it was magical. They don't exist anymore, they ended up being absorbed into Boost, who are shit)
@ifixcoinops capital abhors a [literally anything good]
@ifixcoinops You can get Visible for $19/month for unlimited data on Verizon. It's an intro rate so future self will need to find a new plan in 1 year.
@bryan can't do Verizon on this phone but cheers for the rec
@ifixcoinops what did you switch to? i just kept on using them even after it became obvious they were replaced by boost mobile wearing their skin like a suit. afraid of jumping to something that turns out to be even worse i guess
@pho4cexa haven't jumped yet but it looks like I'm gonna end up on Mint, which uses the same towers
@ifixcoinops @pho4cexa three cheers for mint, the greatest cell service in america

@2d can i assume this is face value and not sarcasm? if you're quoting one of the ryan reynolds mint commercials, i'm too out of touch to get the reference 😅

so do you use mint and like it? i'm wary about the mention of their app (is it just a website wrapper or does it Do Things to your phone?), and a little concerned* that they limit (how?) wifi hotspot use to 10gb regardless of plan

  • (maybe an irrational concern since i haven't used more than 6gb off my phone-as-hotspot in years)
@pho4cexa i’ve used mint for years, i like it. i’m not technically inclined enough to answer those questions though. it definitely SEEMS like a website wrapper though

@ifixcoinops hmm, it does look cheaper than what i'm paying tingmobile, for what i'm using

i don't understand how mvnos can charge less than the monopoly telcos (all three of them (in the usa)) who they lease their network access from but whatevs

@pho4cexa @ifixcoinops I don't think there are any real MVNOs anymore, the legacy carriers bought them all back up, even Boost is just Dish

@jordan @pho4cexa aye, t-mobile bought mint just as I was getting ready to switch (still probable gonna switch)

As for the business case, selling the same thing at a bunch of different prices under different names has been a thing for a good long while. If I'm selling a thing worth a tenner and I want a hundred quid out of you but you've only got fifty, I'll put on glasses and moustache and sell it to you for fifty under a different name

@ifixcoinops @jordan yay, this thread has unnerdsniped me. probable also gonna switch then try to never dwell on the state of phone/data service in the usa until i'm forced to
sweet. the amount i save switching from ting mobile to mint mobile is going to pay for 3/4ths of my chonky canadian colocataires cloud computer costs, contingent on correct calculations

the switch from ting to mint was surprisingly quick and mostly painless, with no out-of-service downtime beyond the minute or so to swap the sim cards, and i could keep the number i was using :not_bad:

only inconvenience was ting's broken website wouldn't tell me my account number, so i had to call support to obtain it

@ifixcoinops it's really impressive how many things the Sprint/T-Mobile merger screwed up.
@ifixcoinops I used to be a Ting subscriber. They were great! Until one day they weren't and I had to dump them.
@ifixcoinops ohey, I loved Ting, and haven't found a cheaper option so I still owe their new corporate overlords $15 a month...any suggestions for where to go from here?
@jakimfett I'm gonna try Mint, can't say yet whether I'll regret it

@ifixcoinops Congrats!

And that's odd - I'm using the car track buttons to switch stations in Transistor on Android Auto. Maybe the car is sending different signals.

Regardless, it is inconsistent - sometimes it decides to only switch between one or two stations as if it really wants me to listen to them. I get the feeling media handling on Android is cursed. 

@digitalfox huh, weird. This is through a cheap aftermarket clip-on steering wheel control doodad that radio's over to a box behind the stereo with key1/key2 wires, which then get defined as seek forward/backward buttons in the cheap stereo software so there's, like... several layers of bullshit going on lol
@ifixcoinops @digitalfox I found an obvious bug which is that you have to press "previous track" twice in quick succession to go back one station, but "next track" always goes forward one station. This is because Transistor is relying on the default behaviour of the underlying media player, which interprets the first press of "previous track" as "go to beginning of current track". Of course for a radio station you can't go to the beginning, so the first press just resyncs the currently playing station. Perhaps this explains the inconsistent behaviour.

@whimsy @ifixcoinops Oddly enough, that doesn't happen for me. I press "previous track", and Transistor skips to the previous station, no resyncing the same station.

This works with Google Assistant voice commands ("next song", "previous song"), long-pressing the volume keys to mimic media buttons (Tasker sends a media key), and with the car's prev/next hardware buttons.

@digitalfox @ifixcoinops lol, I guess you were right, media in Android is cursed

@whimsy @digitalfox do you know what bloody happened yesterday

I opened Transistor going "Well maybe I'll try double-tapping it" and it worked fine, single-taps cycled through the stations.

Do you know what bloody happened today though! Back to skipping back and forth through the stream!

NO CLUE

@ifixcoinops Hah, that's the Android I know and love!

…"love."  

I'm sure there's some unholy explanation for this in the Android OS, ExoPlayer in Transistor, the car stereo head unit, and the phase of the moon. Something that explains why it skips through the stream for you, but cycles the wrong stations for me, and needs a double skip for @whimsy. Sometimes.

If I find somethin' out, I'll follow up here. Transistor is still being developed, so there might be hope.

@digitalfox @ifixcoinops I made a private build of Transistor last night that would probably fix Dan's problem if he's interested.

I was knowingly simplifying the behaviour of the previous track button because the actual truth is long and complicated and involves details of the HLS spec. The slightly longer but still short version is that the previous track button jumps to the "beginning" of the current stream or, if you're already near the "beginning", jumps to the previous station.

But what's the "beginning" of a live stream? This is a technical detail that depends on the stream you're listening to. It could be anything. But often the "beginning" is always a few seconds before whatever moment is currently "live". If this interval is consistently short enough for a given stream, then the previous track button will never skip to the "beginning" of that stream, it'll just go straight to the previous station. This explanation is still simplified but it's about right.

@digitalfox @ifixcoinops The developer of Transistor made an effort to make sure that previous and next track buttons would work to switch stations. According to the comments they did this to support headphones that include those buttons. But broadly they just rely on the default behaviour of exoplayer.

The default behaviour of exoplayer makes a lot of sense for listening to an album, but not so much for Internet Radio. It's pretty easy to override the behaviour to something that makes more sense.

Dan's buttons are probably either rewind and fast forward buttons, not skip track buttons. Transistor doesn't have specific support for those but exoplayer supports them by default. But of course rewinding and fastforwarding a radio station doesn't make a lot of sense, and the behaviour you actually get when you press these buttons again depends on technical details of the stream you're listening to. It's pretty easy to modify the app to use these buttons to switch stations though.

@digitalfox @ifixcoinops I verified all this by sending specific keycodes to the app via the Android debugger, so I'm sure of which keys do what, but of course there's nothing to stop weird hardware or a weird custom Android from sending different keycodes than you expect for a particular button, or overloading a single button to send two or more different keycodes.

A significant proportion of my day job for the last 10+ years has been implementing streaming-related stuff on various devices, including Android.

@whimsy @ifixcoinops Thank you for the in-depth explanation, this makes sense! I appreciate the opportunity to learn more, and I apologize, I didn't intend to be dismissive.

I'll keep an eye (ear?) out for any trends with this going forward.

@digitalfox @ifixcoinops No, you weren't dismissive at all! I'm just bad at conveying warmth and information at the same time 😊
@ifixcoinops Just tested Transistor in an emulator and it looks like it does support previous track/next track buttons to switch stations. Does your car not have those buttons?
@ifixcoinops just saw your other reply to a similar question. You probably already tried this but the seek buttons might be overloaded to also act as previous track/next track buttons somehow, like double tap for next track, or something. But yeah, it sounds like it's your stereo's fault.
@ifixcoinops I use and like VRadio. Doesn't look like it uses radio-browser.info but seems to use something similar. Has good Android Auto support and allows you to manually add stations that have a stream but may not be published. Has ads in the free version but are removed with paid.
@ifixcoinops Is the factory setup an on-glass antenna with a preamp that needs +12 from the head unit?
@foundthefault it's an actual proper antenna hole, it just doesn't do much with the signal 'cause it's like a 50 cent radio chip
@ifixcoinops rule 1: don't ask sungo to do it unless you really like wasting connectors and time
@sungo you're gonna have like forty connectors either fall off the wire or chop straight through it until you've got the tension set up just right
@ifixcoinops Dan, I love your insight. Do you need an intern? I’m or some sort of lackey? I’m in L.A. :D
@ifixcoinops 🦘 ohhh right, the CROMPS, why didn’t you say so
@ifixcoinops I've also found that there's a very specific type of crimp lug that happily works with the weird little crimper nubbin on my linemans, although they're pretty much exclusively for the larger gauges of wire those pliers are intended to be used with. (specifically 12 and 14 gauge with the thicker stranding; anything other than that gets a Proper Crimper. And don't even think of using the my-first-crimper for coax...)
@ifixcoinops I accidentally crimped the ball of my thumb in the wire strippers of one of those once and can no longer look at them without wincing.

@ifixcoinops I couldn't agree more about that trash claiming to be a crimper! So much frustration ...

One of my common sayings is: The right tool for the job makes all the difference. That thing is a data point in favor of my saying.

@ifixcoinops I inherited one of those ten years ago. I tried using it for the first time last month to strip some wires. I had a bad time, but fortunately not a Bad Time.
@ifixcoinops look the wire cutter usually works on those, and the screw sizer is occasionally handy unless you’re trying to figure out if it’s metric or traditional English size
@ifixcoinops The only good thing about these is that you'll never lose them. They're so awful they never get used, so they're left out somewhere, they'll always be in the bottom of the junk drawer or toolbox they got chucked.
@ifixcoinops also, always buy ratcheting crimpers, and you’ll get a perfect crimp every time
@ifixcoinops
Installed one in my last car, wound up replacing the factory sub and ripping out the dead bagphone just because "if I'm taking the whole car apart anyways..."