Mastodawn

AlisonW ♿🏳️‍🌈♾️Sep 25, 2025

ID cards are bad. Very bad.

1. Once they exist it will become necessary to always carry it. If you don't you must have something to hide, etc.
2. They can't stop people working in the 'black economy' because people currently employing those working for cash don't care.
3. It is another attack on trans and NB people (very unlikely someone would be allowed to have multiple IDs)
4. Massive data loss of personal information is highly likely.
5. Who pays? Why should they?
6. Police state becomes more likely with having your ID inspected whenever a copper wants to harass someone, especially POC.
7. OTHER OPTIONS ALREADY EXIST!

ID cards are a very bad, very dangerous, very expensive, and very risky idea.

ps I'm not a 'Brit'. I'm British, or more specifically English!
#IDcards #PoliceStateUK #BritCard

Edzilla Sep 25, 2025

@AlisonW
I'm curious, as a Belgian with a mandatory ID card (and French, same situation), it's never felt like such a huge issue.
You can get your gender changed fairly easily and it is reflected on the ID card. and it makes identifying with online government services much easier. (think taxes, unemployment benefits, etc)
It has zero impact on taxes avoidance or anything like that but at least in Belgium it was never meant to so that's ok.

CFy Sep 25, 2025

@edzilla @AlisonW

Same curiosity from a German perspective here - it is not mandatory to carry the ID card, but easy to do and good if you need proof of ID or proof of address (e.g. picking up a parcel, opening an account...)
Having lived in the UK for many years, I know that the driving licence is used there for the same purpose, but I find it discriminatory against people who don't have one. Never understood why the British are so against IDs.

CFy Sep 25, 2025

@edzilla @AlisonW
Also just checked: the German ID card doesn't specify gender - so why would you need multiple if you're trans / NB?

Jon PENNYCOOK Sep 25, 2025

@cfy @edzilla @AlisonW I can imagine the British Government not learning any lessons from Germany - they will probably have too much sensitive information on the card/app itself, and make it really difficult to change anything.

Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE Sep 25, 2025

@jonpsp @cfy @edzilla @AlisonW The two problems with any "ID card" are

(1) It opens the door to a police state, the moment the government decides that you can be stopped on the street and arrested for failing to "produce your papers". (Like happened to me in France.)

(2) It's a one stop shop for identity thieves. At the moment to assume my identity and completely fuck up all aspects of my life someone would have to break into multiple systems: with an ID card that reduces to just one.

libUnderseaMonkey.so 🇪🇺Sep 26, 2025

@TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy @edzilla @AlisonW

3) It's inevitably going to result not just in identity theft but personal data leakage. Got information about you that your employer/bank/insurer/etc isn't supposed to access and act on? Exactly how strong do you think those virtual guardrails are going to be?

@underseamonkey
Again, why? The government already has all this information in a database somewhere, there's no reason for it to be any more or less secure. And if your employer/insurer requires a proof of ID, using a certificate based one rather than a utilities bill LOWERS the risk of ID theft, it does not increase it
@TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW

libUnderseaMonkey.so 🇪🇺Sep 26, 2025

@edzilla @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW No, all that information is in a variety of places, dependent upon need and right to know. Focusing it in on a single data lake is asking for trouble.

Edzilla Sep 26, 2025

@underseamonkey @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW Why would it need to be in a single place? It's not required to make an ID card, either physical or digital. My belgian card is a physical card with a certificate signed by the state's certificate authority. There is no overarching database with everything about me in it.
That certificate can then be used to authenticate to the online taxes portal, the online benefits portal.
The chip on the card only contains the exact same things printed on it

libUnderseaMonkey.so 🇪🇺Sep 26, 2025

@edzilla @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW And the thing is, the British government is both phenomenonally bad at this but also tends towards a centralising instinct. Other than the US, the worst place to implement an ID system as a citizen is the UK.

vicarvernon Sep 26, 2025

@underseamonkey @edzilla @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW quite a lot of identity information can already be in one place, as experienced with a recent data theft incident with a DBS certificate processor. A DBS certificate is mandatory if you work with children and vulnerable adults in the UK.

AlisonW ♿🏳️‍🌈♾️Sep 27, 2025

@vicarvernon @underseamonkey @edzilla @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy
Yes, so we really shouldn't be trying to make such data theft even easier!

🔶Mark Nicoll 3.5%🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧🇪🇺🇺🇳Sep 26, 2025

@edzilla @underseamonkey @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW
best case senario the British government is going to pay a private company to run this. That company will not have serious oversight. The company will keep offering to collect more and more data in the name of "efficiency". They will under invest in security and safety and make sure the tax payer is left to bail them ou for fixing problems caused by their lack of investment. Because that's how we do things in the UK.
1/2

🔶Mark Nicoll 3.5%🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧🇪🇺🇺🇳Sep 26, 2025

@edzilla @underseamonkey @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW
Worst case senario Reform get elected next GE and use it to track and persecute minorities and anyone who disagrees with them.
2/2.

Edzilla Sep 26, 2025

@duckwhistle
Again, why would they need an ID card for that? Any government would already have that information.
You are already required to prove your identity in some situations, right? How do you do it currently?
@underseamonkey @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW

libUnderseaMonkey.so 🇪🇺Sep 26, 2025

@edzilla @duckwhistle @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW Passport, driving license, two forms of utility bill, take your pick...

Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE Sep 26, 2025

@underseamonkey @edzilla @duckwhistle @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW Today, it was knowing the address where my parents used to live. But that's Aviva for you.

Edzilla Sep 26, 2025

@underseamonkey
So what's the difference between your passport and an ID card?
@duckwhistle @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW

CFy Sep 26, 2025

@edzilla @underseamonkey @duckwhistle @TimWardCam @jonpsp @AlisonW
Passport doesn't fit in your wallet and doesn't have your address, so can't be used as proof of address. That's why in the UK utility bills get elevated to official documents proving your address - impossible to falsify 🤪

Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE Sep 26, 2025

@cfy @edzilla @underseamonkey @duckwhistle @jonpsp @AlisonW Once Upon A Time - not that long ago!! - some organisations only accepted paper utility bills, bank statements, etc, and didn't accept ones "downloaded from the internet". That's changed.

Jon PENNYCOOK Sep 26, 2025

@TimWardCam @cfy @edzilla @underseamonkey @duckwhistle @AlisonW going off on a complete tangent - a bank wrote me a letter saying I needed to bring photographic ID plus a letter from a reputable organisation (utility bill, bank statement etc) with my address. Obviously I took their own letter as proof of address.

In countries where you have to register with the Police or another Government body before you can receive post, this probably wouldn't happen.

libUnderseaMonkey.so 🇪🇺Sep 26, 2025

@edzilla @duckwhistle @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW Your passport isn't electronic, it's voluntary, it's isolated to the passport office... shall I go on?

Edzilla Sep 26, 2025

@underseamonkey
You passport is electronic - apparently in the UK it's since 2010. It's also very much not isolated to the passport office - that's not how governments work. How do you think the passport office gets/checks your date of birth and other identifying information?
@duckwhistle @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW

libUnderseaMonkey.so 🇪🇺Sep 26, 2025

@edzilla @duckwhistle @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW I'm gonna hang up here because there's no intention to engage with how the UK systems work.

Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE Sep 26, 2025

@edzilla @underseamonkey @duckwhistle @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW Because you supply a paper copy of your birth certificate with your passport application? Or is that no longer a thing?

🔶Mark Nicoll 3.5%🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧🇪🇺🇺🇳Sep 26, 2025

@TimWardCam @edzilla @underseamonkey @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW
it was still a thing when I applied for both my kids first passports and they were both born after 2010. You don't need extra documents when renewing an in date passport as they already store all the necessary information.
Whilst the passport office does allow outside access to their database, the data isn't just freely available to every government department that wants to look at it.
But a universal ID, requires universal access.

Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE Sep 26, 2025

@edzilla @underseamonkey @duckwhistle @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW The really really BIG difference is that you only NEED to have your passport with you when you're passing through a port - the clue is in the name, right?

And there are plenty of people who don't have passports because they don't need them - for whatever reason, they don't travel abroad.

And there are plenty of British citizens who don't have a British passport because they've been lucky enough to get a rather more useful EU one (so why bother to renew the British one, why pay twice for an inferior product?).

Tim Ward ⭐🇪🇺🔶 #FBPE Sep 26, 2025

@edzilla @duckwhistle @underseamonkey @jonpsp @cfy @AlisonW Well, the Trumpian approach, which Farridge is no doubt desperate to implement here, would be

* spot a brown person walking down the street
* ask them for their ID card
* whether or not they manage to produce one, and regardless of what it says, arrest them for failing to produce ID on demand
* nobody ever hears from them again.

AlisonW ♿🏳️‍🌈♾️Sep 26, 2025

@duckwhistle @edzilla @underseamonkey @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy
Don't forget that history suggests that the private company getting the business *and all the data* will likely be American and so not subject to GDPR.

You can't change your biometrics (except with extreme surgery?)

h4nd / UntouchedCupOfTea Sep 27, 2025

@AlisonW @duckwhistle @edzilla @underseamonkey @TimWardCam @jonpsp @cfy

I guess absolutely everyone should use Ursula van der Leyden's fingerprints: https://gizmodo.com/german-hackers-publish-interior-ministers-fingerprint-t-373829

German Hackers Publish Interior Minister's Fingerprint to Protest Against Biometric IDs

A group of hackers has captured the fingerprints of the German Interior Minister as a protest against plans to use biometric data in e-passports. The

Gizmodo