Mastodawn

jonny (good kind)

Fuck google pay, apple pay, any payment system linked to a phone. Fuck a cashless society. I needed to use google wallet for some event recently and couldn't because I'm running grapheneOS. Refuse to use this bull shit. The card processors are a cartel but they're nothing compared to Google owning all transaction data.

jonny (good kind)Sep 23, 2025

I see people using their phone for public transit, I see most people using their phone when buying groceries, that shit makes no sense to me. Why would you want your money to run out of batteries so that it can spy on you?

jonny (good kind)Sep 23, 2025

Pre-pandemic I only used cash, now many places no longer even take it, at least in LA, which I didn't even know was legal. It just works and is not hard to use in any way.

jonny (good kind)Sep 23, 2025

Please assume when talking to me that I am aware that 1) businesses like money and 2) other things are also bad in addition to the thing I am talking about.

Sven Slootweg, low-spoons mode ("still kinky and horny anyway")Sep 23, 2025

@jonny The usual reasons places don't want to handle cash:
- Counting out change takes time, so it takes slightly longer to serve customers
- Handling coins cost money; the consumed/received quantity is unbalanced and differs between denominations so you need to buy coin rolls and those have an extra cost attached
- Employees can make mistakes and/or 'appropriate' cash

So yeah it was never about whether it's hard to use, capitalists just don't like it because it's not to their advantage so they'll make up complexity if they need to, to convince people to pay digitally

Ember is so tired of people.

@joepie91 @jonny imo the biggest difficulty is so many people paying with the biggest notes, rather than taking any effort to give an amount close to the cost, which leads to a needlessly high drain on the smaller notes and coins in the register

Sven Slootweg, low-spoons mode ("still kinky and horny anyway")Sep 23, 2025

@Ember @jonny When I worked retail, people often made an effort to make 'round' change (eg. giving a 5 euro note plus a 10 cent coin so that I could change back whole euros) and it didn't solve the imbalance, this seems to just be a fundamental thing with change (and the imbalance is different for different industries!)

Sven Slootweg, low-spoons mode ("still kinky and horny anyway")Sep 23, 2025

@Ember @jonny Like at discount stores and market stalls here, people often pay in small change and so they have too much of it, but at supermarkets and railway food places they pay mainly with bills so there's not *enough* change

jonny (good kind)Sep 23, 2025

@joepie91
@Ember
Currency is a public service that costs money and there is friction in circulation, yes. It is worth it imo.

Sven Slootweg, low-spoons mode ("still kinky and horny anyway")Sep 23, 2025

@jonny @Ember Oh, absolutely. But convincing capitalists of that is a whole other matter...

Sven Slootweg, low-spoons mode ("still kinky and horny anyway")Sep 23, 2025

@Ember @jonny (I should also note that in NL it's common to *ask* customers to make the change round if they can, if they don't already do so themselves, so that may be a cultural thing)

Ember is so tired of people.

@joepie91 @jonny probably, in my experience most people rarely make an effort, and just assume that the store will have the change, which we often don't because it runs out so quickly from people doing this 🙃

Antony Sep 23, 2025

@joepie91 @jonny I agree with you, just to add to your point: card networks aren't free either. While it costs to handle (and even make) cash, the card network operators also levy fees on transactions. Taking payments costs money. No idea what Google and Apple do but I bet it costs on top.

I'm very much against the push to move payments but also banking authenticators to phones.

Kathmandu Sep 23, 2025

@joepie91 @jonny

OTOH, electronic payments cost money too: there's always a fee to the credit/processor, sometimes more than one fee.

verified_transgender

@jonny can still use cash here but we often forget to get cash and so we have to use our card

Doug Webb Sep 23, 2025

@jonny read this, went into a shop and was confronted with this wall of digital payment options

wakest likes your bugs ⁂Sep 23, 2025

@douginamug @jonny Pluxee with benefits sounds erotic

martenson Sep 23, 2025

@jonny I don't give a shit about cash. Electronic payments can be designed better, offline, and much safer than cash. For now we have a monopoly crap implementation -- that needs to change.

Rob Ricci Sep 23, 2025

@jonny have you tried passing them 50k in cash inside fast food bags? I hear that's popular

Bradley Sep 23, 2025

@jonny lately I have been offered to pay cash for a discount on my bill so let's hope it makes a comeback

I AM BANKSY ☕ / 🗑‍🔥Sep 23, 2025

@jonny
I had an ebike that unlocked via an app, except when it didn't want to connect with Bluetooth. There was a hardware override, but it was a pain in the ass in so many ways.

Keys work fine, no, custom apps because.

Anything that requires an app is just going to fail you when you need it most.

catch Sep 23, 2025

@xinit @jonny I have this 1965-ish British road bike that is more than 50% original parts, did 30 miles on it on Friday and it still rides well. Imagine if they'd made so you can't ride it without a fucking punch card or something.

rustynail Sep 23, 2025

@jonny I don't currently use a custom rom but I still only use a plastic card, some disposable one that doesn't have a lot on it and is safe to lose or ruin, and I just carry it in a pocket

@jonny do you not have a physical debit card

Liv Pink Sep 23, 2025

@jonny Paying by phone is safer than using a credit card or debit because your banking details are tokenized. Not sure that's why most people use it, tho 😛

Luna / Miika ☭

(need more cuddles)Sep 23, 2025

@jonny Its like one of these Patrick "Take it or leave it" memes

CaveDave Sep 23, 2025

@jonny bUt It iS sO cOnvEnIeNt!!!!!!

jonny (good kind)Sep 23, 2025

@engravecavedave
I was leaving a parking garage the other day. 4 lanes. All full of cars with hazards on, stopped for 5 minutes or so each. Apple pay was down. I passed through in roughly 10 seconds.

A few days ago I was in a whole foods. They had to shut the whole store down - bring everything to the front, we'll put it away, you can't buy anything. I asked someone by the door since ive been going in there a few years. Something with the Amazon prime system.

Money on phones does not seem to be that convenient or work that good. My experience of cell phones has basically been "fine when plugged in on wifi, but otherwise low on batteries, out of signal, or dead." Not exactly great qualities for currency

CaveDave Sep 23, 2025

@jonny I agree. That's why I wRoTe iT lIKe tHiS

jonny (good kind)Sep 23, 2025

@engravecavedave
Ya I was just concurring and writing some more examples of how it is so convenient

Albert Cardona Sep 23, 2025

@jonny Worse still, the elderly and children rely on cash. Why exclude them?

Nagaram Sep 23, 2025

@albertcardona
@jonny

Erm... This problem is exactly why I built my start up "Everyone In Debt"

Its a smart contract and crypto based decentralized credit provider that allows anyone to have the functionality of a credit card without government regulations.

Our app servers only run in off shores data centers so your transactions and our activities are legally outside the Feds prying eye. They're also upcycled gaming PCs me and the founders just had lying around that work enough.

/s

Štěpán 💤Sep 23, 2025

@jonny glue your credit card to the back of the phone

jonny (good kind)Sep 23, 2025

@stepan
Finally, the tech breakthrough of a generation: credit cards are now 10x as thick

Graeme 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿Sep 23, 2025

@jonny Just use a card?

jonny (good kind)Sep 23, 2025

@pa27
Read the post. Had to use it for an event.

march38 Sep 23, 2025

@jonny @pa27 i still don't get it sorry: how did that event accept tapping a card through a phone but not directly?

Also curious: did Google Wallet waited until you actually had to pay? I would expect this to fail when you try to add the card.

jonny (good kind)Sep 23, 2025

@march38
@pa27
It was like "you need to add this ticket to google wallet so we can scan it" and then I got as far as that error trying to do that 🤷‍♀️. I just ended up using a friends phone

Michal 🇨🇿Sep 23, 2025

@jonny
Same here. But I'm still able to use Garmin pay together with GOS :).

It is just a comfort when I'm running outside and want to buy one beer but forgot cash.

And yes, Google is liar. They have a motto: Don't be Evil

EU gov is evil as well. Only certificated firmware for radio (LTE, 5G, ...) coming soon. Checked with help of bootloader

Josh Sep 23, 2025

@jonny When we are basically required to be "customers" of Google or Apple in order to participate in society, it's obvious those companies shouldn't exist as corporations with shareholders. They should be nationalised if that's the level of lock-in they're going for.

It sucks, I completely agree.

Michal 🇨🇿Sep 23, 2025

@jonny I'm sure you know it. But maybe for other readers...

The cash is not anonymous. In EU is tracking system for banknotes.

https://en.eurobilltracker.com/

EuroBillTracker - Follow your Euro notes in their tracks

This site allows you to keep track of all the euro bills that come in your hands. It allows you to generate bill reports that will tell you where your bills have been located and where they will be!

ray Sep 23, 2025

@jonny A great reason I still say cash is king... permissionless, instant, data and device free, untraceable and you own it without third party access.

codebuzz 🐧Sep 23, 2025

@jonny I know. Its time we all slowly move away from them banks and let them starve. They exists from our money. This arrogance they have is unacceptable.

Me and Paypal shizz:

https://indieweb.social/@codebuzz/115027786379359919

codebuzz 🐧 (@[email protected])

Attached: 1 image What Paypal really???? I was planning for 3 days of vacation, last minute. Going tomorrow. Could only pay via creditcard (i dont have one) or Paypal. Decided Paypal only to find out I need to share ID documents. What?? They allready have my e-mail, phonenumber, but still! I've added money allready, so I did, with a big dislike! They need 3 DAYS to verify! So, I cant go tomorrow!! I am done with these companies! will leave Paypal this year! Take notice! Act or be hijacked! #boycotPaypal

Indieweb.Social

Daniel Evers Sep 24, 2025

@jonny
I wonder if @GrapheneOS can do anything about that (I didn't think so).

GrapheneOS Sep 24, 2025

@dermojo @jonny We can't trick the Play Integrity API into permitting GrapheneOS in a way that will work over the long term. We're working on convincing more banking apps currently using the Play Integrity API to permit GrapheneOS. There has recently been success convincing several to support GrapheneOS via hardware attestation instead including Swissquote. 90% of banking apps work on GrapheneOS. More apps are gradually integrating Play Integrity API but more apps are also allowing GrapheneOS.

GrapheneOS Sep 24, 2025

@dermojo @jonny The pace of apps integrating Play Integrity API checks to their services is currently faster than the pace of apps explicitly allowing GrapheneOS after doing that, so the trend is for the worse right now. Our hope is that governments will regulate the current Play Integrity API out of existence. It's highly anti-competitive and clearly serves no real security purpose. It's easy for attackers to spoof and doesn't even enforce having patches from 6 years ago in the main mode.

jonny (good kind)Sep 24, 2025

@GrapheneOS
@dermojo
Thanks for the info. I knew it would be a losing battle for y'all, and definitely purposely anticompetitive to lock alternative operating systems out. Appreciate what you do and the work it takes to keep up with google purposely nerfing the platform.

Buccia Sep 24, 2025

@GrapheneOS Wondering if attackers running on an Android 13+ device can pretend to be running an older release so that the <=12 months ago patch level doesn't apply.

Would make that requirement since june 2025 useless as a downgrade attack is possible, correct?