CiaraThis pedestrian crossing is on a hill. I’ve noticed that everyone who uses it does the same thing. Car coming? We step into the road so the driver must stop. Bike coming? We step back from the kerb, showing the cyclist that we’ll wait until they’ve passed. Like an instinctive social contract. Cars block public space, bikes share it. Cyclists are either whizzing down or puffing up that hill so it’s a tiny courtesy to let them pass. Often with a mutual smile or wave. Urban in-this-togetherness.
Patrick Hadfield@CiaraNi there's a pelican crossing on the hill near my flat - I always wait for cyclists to pass before pressing the button! :)
@patrickhadfield That's a nice gesture :-) An instinctive camaraderie between pedestrians and cyclists when we share public space.
Quixoticgeek@patrickhadfield @CiaraNi as someone who lives in the Netherlands, I'm confused by these hills you speak of. As a cyclist who lives in Amsterdam, I'm really confused by this idea of cyclists stopping for red lights... :p
@CiaraNi @patrickhadfield Amsterdam has a very specific cycle culture. When I had newly moved here. I stopped for a red light, 5 cyclists crashed into the back of me...
Maki 🔻 🌹@quixoticgeek @CiaraNi @patrickhadfield I half-choked laughing at how true this is, darnit. I sometimes wonder if I'm the only one stopping for red lights...
@RandamuMaki You're a pioneer. Showing the rest of them a glimpse of a better kinder more considerate world! @quixoticgeek @patrickhadfield
Ted Lemon@quixoticgeek @CiaraNi @patrickhadfield
That's really weird. I live in #utrecht and I would say 90% of cyclists stop for red lights except in exceptional situations. I have developed the habit of always waiting for the light, because as a foreigner I am not skilled enough at anticipating what could go wrong to safely decide when to run the light. I've never been rear-ended by another cyclist.
@abhayakara @quixoticgeek @patrickhadfield I have been learning from this thread that Amsterdam seems to have its own Big City ways when it comes to obeying, or not, bike rules :-)
@CiaraNi @quixoticgeek @patrickhadfield
I have yet to attempt to cycle there. :)
@CiaraNi @quixoticgeek @patrickhadfield
I do want to bike up the Vecht at some point, and that will necessarily involve a trip to Centraal so I don't have to bike back, but haven't found the time yet on an appropriately cloudy day. :)
@quixoticgeek @CiaraNi @patrickhadfield
To get in some hills?
@quixoticgeek @CiaraNi @patrickhadfield
Oh, hah, I guess that means from the south. But where's the challenge in that? One of these days I want to bike across the Afsluitdijk... Apparently you can get some really fun winds there.
@abhayakara @CiaraNi @patrickhadfield Afsluitdijk with a headwind is a personal nightmare. It's 32km with no shelter and no break. I've cycled across it once, with a wonderful tailwind.
Cycling's supposed to be fun, no point making it harder than it needs to be.
@quixoticgeek @CiaraNi @patrickhadfield
I used to live in Vermont. After a while the hills get good to you. So I actually enjoy headwinds. You may think I'm crazy, but I'm not lying. :)
@quixoticgeek @CiaraNi @patrickhadfield
(And yes, it is nice to ride with the wind on the way back, assuming it hasn't reversed in the meantime... :)
@abhayakara @CiaraNi @patrickhadfield I've cycled into a headwind for 600km over 4 days. The novelty long ago wore off. If I can avoid one, I will...
@quixoticgeek @CiaraNi @patrickhadfield
I can see where that would wear you down. But now you can tell the story... :)
Paul SchoeIn The Hague, also in the Netherlands, police actually hand out tickets (€180!!) when cyclists go through a red light, EVEN WHEN THE CORRESPONDING PEDESTRIAN'S LIGHT IS ALREADY GREEN. (geen broodje aap)
Explanation for non-Dutch: Pedestrians' lights usually turn green 2 seconds before the general traffic light turns green, so they can already get on the crossing.
@paulschoe I like that two-second system! (I wonder if we have it here. Which I probably shouldn't say out loud, because I should know this, cycling and walking everywhere as I do, clearly just paying random attention to the rules.) @quixoticgeek @patrickhadfield
Harm@paulschoe @quixoticgeek @CiaraNi @patrickhadfield That has a lot to do with traffic fines being used as a source of income. It's a broken system.
Agnieszka R. Turczyńska@paulschoe @quixoticgeek @CiaraNi @patrickhadfield I've seen an explanation of that. The Dutch traffic engineering includes not only clearance time of a conflict zone, but also entering time. So, the green signal is being put for pedestrians earlier because they are slower, and they need more time to reach the conflict zone. On the bicycle you need to wait those two seconds extra to make sure you are safe to enter because the other traffic has passed.
Speaking of, in Eindhoven red signal for bicycles is considered rather like a guidance. However I am not going to verify that running the red light in the front of a police car.
Also, I'm driving other vehicles and I would rather not get into the habit of running red light driving (or riding) them 😊
@agturcz @paulschoe @CiaraNi @patrickhadfield on a group ride in Zwolle once I blasted through a red light, my friends behind me yelled "You're not in Amsterdam any more!!!"
@quixoticgeek Haha - bringing your lawless capital city ways to other places.
@agturcz Interesting. The thinking behind the seconds-differences seems solid. I also like the term 'conflict zone' in this context!
Isocat@CiaraNi @agturcz @paulschoe @quixoticgeek @patrickhadfield If you like 'conflict zone' in this context, just wait'll you hear what it's called (maybe only in North America?) when all the pedestrian signals are [WALK] and all the traffic lights are red in all directions!
They call it a "pedestrian scramble".
@isocat Oh my. 'Pedestrian scramble.' I both like and do not like that all at the same time, as a pedestrian!
@CiaraNi @agturcz @paulschoe @quixoticgeek @patrickhadfield Right? Like "Y'want coffee with that, shug?"
Galbinus Caelihttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ia6vefr-aXw
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedestrian_scramble
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/scramble-crosswalk-downtown-vancouver-1.7284341
@GalbinusCaeli @CiaraNi @agturcz @paulschoe @quixoticgeek @patrickhadfield
Introduction to Pedestrian Scrambles
@isocat Thanks for the link!
@isocat @CiaraNi @agturcz @paulschoe @quixoticgeek @patrickhadfield
I am amused that the video is from the very city that I currently live in.
Thanks
@quixoticgeek @CiaraNi a lot of them don't! It is another stick with which motorists beat them.
@patrickhadfield @CiaraNi except in Amsterdam, cyclists out number motorists. And even then almost every driver is also a cyclist. There's a lot less "us and them" mentality about it.