Angel (She/They)What’s the actual reason neurodivergent people are sometimes discriminated against or bullied?
SiruBullying is almost always about being able to single out a person that is somehow different in order to create a synthetic group feeling in opposition to them. Whether that be financially, absent parents, neurodivergence etc.
potoo22Yup. Herd mentality. If you’re not part of the herd, you’re a valid target for reinforcing the herd’s stances.
RhynoplazIf you’re not part of the herd, you’re one of the nerds!
There. Made it catchier for you!
“Neurotypical” people aren’t as aware of differences due to being the “dominant” group. They often have a herd mentality and join whatever dunks on others best to come on ‘top’.
By not acting as they do, they interpret that as a deliberate choice. They then assume that by not acting like them, that you dont like how they act. This is an attack on them in their view, so they attack “back”.
On top of this, most tippies are are very self centered, and likely have never stopped to think about life as a neurodivergent. That makes us strange to them, and people dont like strange.(ESPECIALLY if they say they like strange)
u/lukmly013 💾 (lemmy.sdf.org)As always, a difference. That’s it. That’s all. Needs no logic. A difference from main crowd. If just color of the skin is enough, then logic clearly isn’t needed in these cases.
If someone wants to find the justification for themselves, they will.
gilokeeIn my experience, I’ve bullied and also been bullied because of people/me being annoying. Or not getting a joke, making a stupid comment, etc. Neurodivergent people often don’t get jokes or can’t read the room, so they get made fun of/bullied for it.
DevolutionGuy, it’s simple. Human nature is to ostracize what is different. You know, social hierarchy and all that shit. I don’t get why you don’t get it.
That said, it’s deplorable and needs to change.
I forgot about that. It is absolutely deplorable, though, you're right
ComradeSharkfuckerThat’s not human nature that’s the product of a society that demands conformity, hierarchy, and defines community through exclusion. You wouldn’t say its in a coal miner’s nature to have black lung.
Edit: Hold on you might have been being sarcastic idk I’m in this thread for a reason lmao
No. Not being sarcastic. You’ve got to look at it from a historical context. Liberalism and tolerance are relatively newer concepts.
Liberalism yeah but tolerance has existed for as long as humans have formed community. I’d argue that prejudice and bigotry, in the way we experience them today and at the scale we see today, are far newer.
nullAnd that society is the product of human nature.
How can you know that for certain when this society is all that you have known? Isn’t it more likely that you are told these things are human nature in order to justify their existence and power over you?
Society has changed drastically over human history and I am certain all forms of them claimed to be the purest expression of human nature.
How do you seperate human nature from the effects our society has on it when both society and human nature constantly affect eachother in turn?
Isn’t it more likely that you are told these things are human nature in order to justify their existence and power over you?
No, that is a significantly more complicated explanation than the obvious assumption that humans, behaving according to their nature, created a society that is the result of human nature.
I am sorry to say that human society, which has existed and evolved for millennia, is often complex and has more to do with production and hierarchy than the expression of a nebulous human nature.
And the conditions that created the seed of that society are the result of human nature.
Sure, but good luck isolating which parts of our lives are derived from pure human nature and which are corrupted by the influence of societal constructs. My argument is that these things are inseperable and that analyzing social behavior through the lense of human nature can lead no where productive because we can’t know what pure human nature is. I am not arguing that human nature does not exist. I am arguing that the material world and the societies we have built in it affect what we percieve as human nature.
Define human nature.
The whole point of what I was saying is that this is impossible?
It’s impossible to define the term “human nature”?
Its impossible to know what human nature is. I can define human nature as behaviors inherent to human beings regardless of social influence but we cannot know what these behaviors are with any certainty because we cannot exist outside of social influence
What a useless interjection then. I thought you were engaging in an actual point, my bad.
Tribalism is literally human nature, though. People have a natural tendency to have a group they consider their own, and those outside of that group. It absolutely is human nature, and has been for thousands of years.
product of a society that demands conformity, hierarchy, and defines community through exclusion
Have you ever thought that maybe those happened because of human nature, and not the other way around?
Have you ever thought that maybe those happened because of human nature, and not the other way around?
Yes acually, I believed that most of my life until I started my education in history and anthropology. Through my studies I was exposed to many societies which did not define themselves through exclusionary definitions. Mostly these were small hunter gatherer societies that were not in direct competition with other groups for resources. I’d be more inclined to argue that it is scarcity of resources that originally created the conditions for tribalism as you describe it. If you removed the incentive for tribalism by removing scarcity I do not believe it would have come about but we also wouldn’t have ever formed a sedentary agricultural society so you win some and you lose some.
Is tribalism human nature or is caring for those close to you above all in the face of scarcity human nature?
「黃家駒 Wong Ka Kui」 | (aka: 鳳凰院 凶真 Hououin Kyouma)My mother thinks autistic people are “dangerous”.
Like what. the. fuck.
My parents came from some rural village in People’s Republic of China, a very conservative upbringing, modern psychaitry is still new, older people have trouble accepting that, and sometimes their views even get passed on to their offsprings. Because PRC is still filled with conservatives, people still get kicked out of university over an Autism diagnosis that the faculty later found out about, there is no “ADA” like there is in the US. (Imagine you have a country, but instead of half of them being US-MAGAs, its 90% of the entire country) Conservatives view any deviation from the “normal” as bad, they think people with any slight mental health issues as “brain damaged” or “useless”, the nazi germany’s concept of “useless eater” comes to mind.
TLDR: Sometimes ignorance, but mostly the conservative mindset.
If ypu read about Johanna Haarer a lot of conservative/ fascist mindset makes a lot of sense. That lady was a psychopath.
🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮 Because the whole fucking world is ass-backwards. I mean, FFS some defining traits of Autism are:
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Having empathy
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Having a strong sense of justice
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Having a strong disposition toward fairness
This would imply that allistic people do not have empathy, do not care about justice, and like when the deck is stacked.
Mugita SokioAs a neurodivergent dude myself, it might be because they don’t understand us, and they happened to be miserable… projecting that onto us.
My producer, Sendo (who’s also autistic) was bullied when he was young, and his father wouldn’t do anything about it.
My theory is that most people are scared, so they try to belong to a group so that they are less scared. The cohesion in the group is determined by the extent to which its participants are alike. To promote cohesion, people tend to conform to the rest of the group (speaking teh same way, dressing the same way, having similar interests etc.).
Now, if someone does not conform to the group, for example, because they dress differently, or have different interests, then either they are not in the group and should be kept our to promote cohesion (according to these people). If they are already in the group and do not conform, they are either pushed into confirming or cast out of the group, to ensure that cohesion remains intact. This is why some people act like people who are neurodivergent are different, I think.
TL;DR: Many people need to be part of a group to feel safe and feel like people acting differently threatens their group.
I think it’s probably because people get irritated. Not to excuse it, but it does take some awareness and tolerance and patience, just like it does for you. Not “lesser” at all, more likely just annoying, and again, just like you are likely annoyed with them.
For the most part, when you participate in any social interaction, people will have ready-made roles laid out for all the participants. These roles consist of an unspoken list of dos and don’ts that are absorbed through cultural osmosis to the point that they become social norms. This is all quite subconscious, and when questioned about it, most of us will either reject that they’re engaged in this or answer something vague to make the question go away.
When someone shows up that doesn’t quite seem to catch on to the game, many people tend to get uncomfortable. If there’s someone who isn’t acting their part, they’re no longer sure what to do themselves. They feel threatened and shitty behavior ensues to enforce the status quo. So yes, mostly people are performing a role in order to fit in, even if they don’t realize they’re doing it.
On the plus side, when you meet someone who doesn’t expect you to perform a role to meet their demands, it’s pretty freakin’ sweet.
The short answer is the safety of the social group.
The long answer is rabies.
Usually neurodivergent isn’t relevant. People are bullied because they’re different and because they’re an easy target, regardless of why they’re different