Jeff GeerlingSep 4, 2025

I bought the cheapest used EV, and just posted a video going over my experience with my first EV.

*And* why I don't think an EV isn't the right option for most car owners in the US (at least not yet).

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQQtFnLefqw

And a blog post, if you're more textually-inclined: https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2025/i-bought-cheapest-ev-used-nissan-leaf

Show threadJeff Geerling

"don't isn't" hehe oops!

But to explain a little more: EVs are substantially more expensive, require access to charging infrastructure that many don't have, and have extra complication where gas cars don't due to 100 years of gas infra investment.

That doesn't mean I don't think they're a great option for some people. Or that we shouldn't invest in EV infrastructure. Just that right now, like for our minivan, there's no EV equivalent that would fit our family's use case (for any price).

Sep 4, 2025 at 2:19pmWeb
Show threadChris FergusonSep 4, 2025

@geerlingguy I understand your perspective, though I think many more people WOULD be able to be happy with an EV than THINK they would.

But I that's not the same as it fitting MOST life styles and needs yet, as you specified.

Show threadRaptor Sep 4, 2025
@ChrisFerguson @geerlingguy especially with the battery size on the 2026 models most ev's you're looking at only needing to charge once a week even with a good sized commute if you can't trickle charge for some reason (I really only use my L1 charger off 120v, it's more than enough to keep my car charged overnight). A surprising number of people still don't realize you even CAN charge at home, lots of people think you can only charge at the quick chargers or the L2's at grocery stores.
Show threadDavid SSep 4, 2025

@ChrisFerguson @geerlingguy

Agreed. Most journeys are short and could be done in an EV or even by bike. Plus EVs are always 100% full (for free if you also have solar) when you leave assuming you can charge at home, saving time.

Whereas often people think of their least frequent long journey and base their vehicle choice on that scenario.

Which I why I had to buy my own runway and plane for my summer holiday trip abroad.

Show threadInterpipes đź’™Sep 4, 2025
@geerlingguy pretty much the only reason I carry my L2 cable on the daily (in the UK) is on the off chance the only way I can park somewhere is in a destination charger EV-only space which, frankly, is not a compelling reason to give up such a large proportion of your boot space 24x7 given your boot is going to be considerably smaller than the one in my Enyaq!
Show threadJeff GeerlingSep 4, 2025
@interpipes haha yeah, I switched from the giant Nissan cable to a Lectron L1 cable because the Nissan one took like 15% of my cargo space!
Show threadLinh PhamSep 4, 2025

@geerlingguy I'm in a situation where I work from home and the family still needs a vehicle to get to various appointments and other things. Right now, we've gone down to one car and very much looking at switching to a BEV for the next car.

We don't have a way to charge the vehicle over night, but there are Level 2 and DCFC stations within 5-10 minutes if/when we need to top up the car.

There definitely needs to be a push towards making it easier/incentivize multi-family housing and load-sharing EVSE for homes with 100A service. That will help reduce the need for super large batteries, which make up a lot of the cost and extra weight required to haul around (thus dragging down overall efficiency).

There is no single silver bullet, but there still needs to be progress made to get away from depending on ICE vehicles.

Show threadRaptor Sep 4, 2025
@geerlingguy might be different in your area but fwiw in the past two years we've probably gotten 5x the quick charge stations here in mn, a lot of the holiday/circle-k gas stations have chargers now and the kwik-trip gas stations are starting to add them as well. (we also already had designated charge corridors for all major highways in the state that had big charge stations). Not much a worry here anymore with the high coverage.
Show threadRaptor Sep 4, 2025

@geerlingguy Also "needs less maintenance" is an understatement from my experience, lol.

I drive a 2019 leaf and my maintenance for the past 5 years has been "change tires" and "new (12v) battery". Most EVs I see up here are substantially larger too, I see a LOT of rivian and ford electric trucks, their range is huge compared to my little car.

Show threadKrishean DraconisSep 4, 2025
@geerlingguy i think the best option for now is plug-in hybrids, if you have access to charging infra you can use it, if not you still have an engine as a backup
Show threadĺ››Sep 4, 2025

@geerlingguy Finding out why something doesn’t work is the first step to fixing it. Nothing good comes from an attitude of ignoring problems because they don’t nearly fit some world view.

Like home charging. Don’t own a home/garage and it gets more complicated at once.

Show threaddeBaerSep 4, 2025
@geerlingguy The "charging infrastructure" is a wall plug or an extension lead. When charging at home, you normally don't need to quick charge with 32 A @ 400 V, a trickle charge is usually enough because the car is standing around over night anyway.
Show threadJeff GeerlingSep 4, 2025
@deBaer Many of my friends live in an apartment, condo, shared space, etc. where they don't have access to a parking spot near an outlet. And I wouldn't recommend charging an EV off a 100' extension cord!
Show threadDavid SSep 4, 2025

@geerlingguy @deBaer

In London in the UK we have mostly terraced houses and flats, but we also have lamppost chargers in some boroughs. Only 5-7kw but fine overnight.

Show threadJeff GeerlingSep 4, 2025
@Pionir it'd be nice if we had more forward-thinking infrastructure here :(
Show threadPatch You UpSep 4, 2025
@geerlingguy Yep, need a minivan for my family (2 adults, 2 small kids, 2 dogs). With a full EV we would need to stop to charge several times to visit parents (the ranges listed are high estimates with no cargo). I'd love a PHEV model, since the majority of my driving is within 20 miles of home. But as of right now, the only option I can find is outside of my price range.
Show threadJeff GeerlingSep 4, 2025
@Jumpmed yeah and the best PHEV minivan seems to be the Pacifica. Expensive... and a Chrysler
Show threadPatch You UpSep 5, 2025
@geerlingguy Haha I specifically avoided saying the name because the brand is another factor besides price that I won't be buying it.
Show threadGordon J HoltslanderSep 4, 2025

@geerlingguy With the auto tariffs & Canada there is new focus on the Arrow 2 project, a collaboration of Ontario Tech U and Automotive Parts Manufacturers’ Association (APMA) of Canada to develop a "made in Canada, for Canada" EV. Prototype is an SUV, perhaps a minivan next?

https://ace.ontariotechu.ca/project-arrow.php

https://www.apma.ca/project-arrow

https://www.projectarrow.ca/rfp

https://ontariotechu.ca/

Why the name arrow?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_CF-105_Arrow

Project Arrow

Canada’s Automotive Parts Manufacturers’ Association (APMA) selected Ontario Tech as the lead academic institution for Phase 2 of Project Arrow, an all-Canadian engineered concept funded by the Federal Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario (FedDev). The Arrow’s ambitious deadline was met, and the APMA’s brainchild made its global debut January 5, 2023 at the Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas, the world’s the most influential tech event.

Show threadBrian OwenSep 4, 2025
@geerlingguy Satisfied EV driver for the last 4 years here. The discussion around this topic kind of baffles me, and I think it's because the downsides of ICE cars are accepted as just 'normal'. If someone pulled the inverse, and tried to convince me to switch to gas, they'd have to explain that I can't fuel up at home, have to pay 4x for fuel, and I have to live with engine noise smelly tailpipe emissions, and I can't even run the AC before I get to the car. I'd say you're crazy.
Show threadmrspSep 4, 2025
@geerlingguy Bingo! Concur. I want an EV. Nothing fits quite right, and they all cost more than gas equivalent. I’m willing to put up with Infra shortcomings, etc.
Show threadJonasSep 4, 2025

@geerlingguy
This "what if petrol car has been invented today in a era full of EV cars" made me chuckle a bit

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O1Okflb2uMk&t=22

(Disclaimer: I ride a bike)

What If Petrol Cars Were Invented In 2025

YouTube
Show threadRupert ReynoldsSep 5, 2025

@geerlingguy I think you got it right first time, with "don't... isn't" :-)

I mean with used cars, you can pick almost any price point you want.

As for charging, average mileage in UK is 8,000 miles in Europe it's a bit more, and in USA it's nearly 14,000, or 260 miles per week (from memory).

That wouldn't need a huge amount of time per week charging, even at 120V, but I'd guess a lot of USA garages already have a 240V outlet, or it can be added easily.

So for a lot of people, driving somewhere to buy gasoline would be replaced by 30 seconds to plug in, then walk into the house and do something less boring instead :-)

Show threadEric de Redelijkheid Sep 7, 2025
@geerlingguy Do you have solar panels on your home? Charging would then cost you nothing.
Show threadJeff GeerlingSep 7, 2025
@ericdere I wish. Almost put them in DIY with an electrician's assistance, but the county won't permit the install if the homeowner touches any little part of it. Paying for the install put it outside my budget range.
Show threadBakunin BoysOct 5
@geerlingguy CHARGING INFRASTRUCTURE? I HARDLY KNOW 'ER!