BlueskyUnfortunately, Bluesky is unavailable in Mississippi right now, due to a new state law that requires age verification for all users.
While intended for child safety, we think this law poses broader challenges & creates significant barriers that limit free speech & harm smaller platforms like ours.
Eugen Rochko@bsky.app And this is why real decentralization matters. There is nobody that can decide for the fediverse to block Mississippi.
Mike MasnickI feel like this is potentially misleading, Eugen? Both because others can host their own views of the network, but also will the largest instances, which you run, be willing to pay the $10k/user fines in Mississippi?
Because the state can still go after instances, no?
Nemes ContentIt's really not meant to be a gotcha kinda thing. I'm just trying to understand the actual complaint.
Fair point, and I believe you but I've see how conversations between fedi and bluesky usually goes.
Many people still think atproto is centralized and corporate controlled on the fedi side.
I am curious how eugene will respond since fedi runs tge whole instance as a site that talks to other sites.
My larger point is simply that this is a bad law that impacts both Mastodon and Bluesky (and the wider Fediverse/Atmosphere) and it seems like a reason to work together to fix the law (i.e., with @gargron.mastodon.social.ap.brid.gy) than to use it to take potshots at each other. The law is bad.
@[email protected] The law is bad, nobody said otherwise. But decentralized systems are supposed to be resilient. If the US makes a law banning all mentions of LGBT from social media, which sounds less unlikely by the minute, what will Bluesky do? All of your infrastructure is controlled by one US company…
Your final point is incorrect. Please don't spread misinfo about stuff like that.
The key point here matters @gargron.mastodon.social.ap.brid.gy: this law equally impacts both ActivityPub and ATproto instances. Using this law (and the fact that some Mastodon servers plan to not comply and risk liability) is not a statement regarding which network architecture is better.
Jared White (ResistanceNet ✊)@mmasnick.bsky.social @[email protected]
I continue to feel this is wrong.
*Anyone* can start a fediverse instance and be a publisher literally of 1. And yet they remain every bit as equal a participant in the overall global network.
Who today is successfully running 1-person ATProto infra and still enjoying all the features of Bluesky?
Jake 
@jaredwhite yeah, only governments and massive businesses have the money required to run their own ATproto PDS, relay, and appview.
Kuba Suder • @mackuba.eu on 🦋@jakeyounglol @jaredwhite It costs something like $250 per month to run all three of these
Mastodon Migration@mackuba @jakeyounglol @jaredwhite
The question no one seems able to answer is who has a completely independent ATproto PDS, relay, and AppView where users can sign up?
If running all three of these is just $250 per month, why aren't there dozens of such independent AT Proto instances?
Seriously trying to understand why no one answers this question.
It seems the closest to this is currently Blacksky and they're still missing the AppView piece. Right?
cc: @folkerschamel
@mackuba @jakeyounglol @jaredwhite @folkerschamel
The reason it is important to answer this question is because bold claims are being made without citing any evidence by people officially associated with Bluesky, like in this thread from earlier today involving Mike Masnick and @folkerschamel: https://mastodon.social/@folkerschamel/115080360729428884
If we are to have this conversation it should be with real facts and examples not aggressive hyperbolic assertions.
@mackuba @jakeyounglol @jaredwhite @folkerschamel
If Blacksky is the best example of a scaled "independent" Bluesky (ATProto) instance. Then it becomes possible to talk about how independent it actually is (no AppView yet, the DID repository). It's then also possible to look at what percentage of users are "independent" of Bluesky PBC technology.
Leaving aside the issue of the DID database, it seems like right now there are no users fully independent, or at least very few. That's just a fact.
@mackuba @jakeyounglol @jaredwhite @folkerschamel
And while rambling along here, it does not seem like we should exempt the DID database from scrutiny. The entire premise is "what if #Bluesky becomes evil?" This is the formulation of the argument by Jay Graber. If that happens then the owner of the DID database holds the keys to the castle. According to Kuba, they intend to transfer this resource to an independent "non-profit" (see https://mackuba.eu/2025/08/20/introduction-to-atproto/). What are they waiting for?
@mackuba @jakeyounglol @jaredwhite @folkerschamel
So, trying to imagine what a truly decentralized Bluesky ATProto would look like, and it seems like it would need to have multiple independent PDSs, sure, but also multiple instances of the other major components capable of running at scale, such that should Bluesky "become evil" all these other folks could keep right on interacting together. Kind of a "cut the cord" test.
@mackuba @jakeyounglol @jaredwhite @folkerschamel
And, the number of users on the non-Bluesky side of the cut the cord test would need to be significant, say at least 25% (or pick a number) of the total ATProto user base.
Finally, the DID has to be secured in a public non-profit lock box.
This seems like the bare minimum necessary for Bluesky to claim they are truly decentralized.
@mastodonmigration @jakeyounglol @jaredwhite @folkerschamel yeah, I'd like to see something like what you're describing eventually; not sure when and if we will get there
@mastodonmigration @jakeyounglol @jaredwhite @folkerschamel btw, there's this post by Bryan from Bluesky written some time ago, which implies that things like "multiple independent Relay services" and "multiple independent AppView services" are goals that they also care about: https://bnewbold.net/2024/atproto_progress/
Folker@mackuba @mastodonmigration @jakeyounglol @jaredwhite
And even this is only the technical perspective, which is the simple one.
Even if all these points are fulfilled, this does not mean decentralization in practice.
To demonstrate the absurdity of the purely technical argument, you could even argue cynically that #twitter has a "credible exit" because every user can export their tweets and following list, and import it into a not-yet-existing new system ...
@folkerschamel @mackuba @mastodonmigration @jakeyounglol As they say, the purpose of a system is what it does.
Until we actually see many examples of non-nerds engaging successfully in the ATmosphere without utilizing *any* infrastructure controlled in any way by Bluesky, then the claim it's a decentralized social networking protocol rings hollow.
@jaredwhite @folkerschamel @mackuba @jakeyounglol
Agreed. What is important from a user perspective is not technological potential or corporate aspirations, but ground truth current reality.
It is nice to know the potential may exist, but until it is realized it is just a possibility.
The thing that is most troubling about Bluesky and Mike Masnick's assertions is conflating this possibility with reality.
@mastodonmigration @jaredwhite @folkerschamel @jakeyounglol I would say users mostly don't care about things as much, and you need to explain to them why they are important at all, which is one of the reasons why more people came to Bluesky which keeps the decentralization aspects mostly hidden than Mastodon which has them front and center… Only some subset of more "decentralization conscious" users cares about either potential or current reality.
@mackuba @jaredwhite @folkerschamel @jakeyounglol
The fact that users "don't care" about something does not mean that it is not an important characteristic, as we are learning with each successive instance of autocratic centralized action.
Twitter people didn't care about it either, until the hammer came down.
@mastodonmigration yeah, most people probably would care if someone explained the benefits of decentralization to them properly
@mastodonmigration @jakeyounglol @jaredwhite @folkerschamel I'm thinking about writing another blog post specifically about the "status of decentralization", but probably not very soon