wilder (she/her)
hOrniIt’s an acronym. There’s no linguistic requirement for any of the letters to match any part of the pronunciation. NASA, scuba, I can list a hundred acronyms that have absolutely no connection to their expanded pronunciation.
And no, it wasn’t just the dude who invented it. It was the entire company, CompuServe, because they were trying to sell a product. “Choosy developers choose gif”. It’s literally got a tagline that tells you how it’s pronounced.
There’s no linguistic requirement for any of the letters to match any part of the pronunciation.
I made no statements to the contrary, not sure why you directed any of that first paragraph at me and not the person I responded to. Regardless, the only “correct” pronunciations of any words are the ones that find purchase in the cultural lexicon. The fact that the soft g pronunciation was chosen by a corporation trying to cash in on the success of a different corporation is even less convincing of an argument. Fuck those soulless money-grubbers, they can take their advertising slogan-based neoligisms and shove them in their arse, but pronounced like “ass” because language evolves. You have to evolve with it or you won’t understand it.
RhaedasYou're absolutely correct, regardless of who defined the sound, it's how it's generally pronounced in public that becomes the status quo and therefore "correct" way.
I've never heard anyone in real life use the soft G. Doesn't mean people don't, but regionally it's "JIF" for me.
The funny thing is, regardless of how it's said people who know anything about computers understand what you're talking about, so the argument is really a useless one. Maybe if .jif was used more then it would matter, but I can't say I've seen a .jif file in the wild myself.
Nope that is far from the only argument.
It is how the word was originally said and intended to be used. Evidence: the literal first advertisement for the format: “choosy developers choose GIF”, a pun on the advertisement for JIFF peanut butter.
the pronunciation of g before a vowel is not always hard. Giraffe. Gin.
the pronunciation of the individual words in an acronym don’t define its pronunciation. NASA - Aeronautic, Association - do you pronounce it NÆSÅ? ASAP - do you say ÅSÅP or AySAP?
It’s fine to say it however you want, but to act like one way is definitively correct, for the reasons you cite anyway, is bad
I didn’t cite any reasons and I didn’t say that there is a correct and incorrect way to pronounce it now, just that the way they chose to pronounce it originally was arbitrary and unintuitive. Add a “t” to the end, what does that spell? The pronunciations of giraffe and gin are equally unintuitive to modern American English speakers, they’re just old words that have been well-established in the lexicon so no one thinks about that. If someone came up with the word gin today, we’d probably be having the same argument about it.
And when I said it’s the only argument, I meant it’s the only one that holds any water. It’s still leaking all over the place.
Both pronunciations already had solid handholds in the zeitgeist by 2016, it was named 30 years before that. I’d argue the 50/50 split you provide nothing but hearsay for is proof that the hard g pronunciation is more intuitive as it was originally marketed and advertised with the soft g (and a pronunciation guide for the slogan as folks have helpfully pointed out). By your and Tom Scott’s reasoning, everyone exposed to it then would use the soft g, but people in the decades after who knew nothing of the cheap marketing stunt would inevitably pronounce it however made the most sense to them. Thus the hard g pronunciation.
Now for my own personal hearsay, it’s never been anywhere close to 50/50 and it’s gotten more and more unbalanced towards the hard g over time. In 2011 it was maybe 70/30 hard g/soft g, now it feels like 95/5 🤷♂️. But again, that’s all obviously irrelevant due to it’s subjectivity.
By your and Tom Scott’s reasoning, everyone exposed to it then would use the soft g,
No by Tom Scott’s explanation (not reasoning, he was stating actual science and scientific studies) exactly what has happened would have happened. People hear the word with a hard g and they forever associate it that way, even if it isn’t correct. It has nothing to do with how people think it should be pronounced or even the way that makes most sense to them. It’s about former associations with other words grabbing your mind at that moment and clicking. Doesn’t matter if you look back at it later and think (oh soft g makes sense cause it’s the peanut butter). You’ll already have the hard g stuck.
The "G" stands for "Graphics". Why would anybody pronounce it "jif"?
Well some of us are refined enough to pronounce it like “giraffe-ics.”
(But also because it was a joke by the format’s creators. “Choosy developers choose GIF.” Like the “choosy moms” Jif peanut butter commercials.)
Thought this was a funny joke but I genuinely regret posting this, didn’t realize it would bring in all the redditors.
We’re in a shitposting sub, it’s really not that serious.
The P in JPEG stands for photographic so I guess we shall pronounce it “jayfeg” based on that logic.
/s
Descriptive linguistic opinion: both the hard and soft G pronunciations are used, with the hard G being more common, but I like the soft G and use it myself.
puppycat (she/her)The only argument is that the guy who invented and named the GIF originally pronounced it that way, but he was a computer scientist, not a linguist. Thankfully the inevitable and uncontrollable evolution of language corrected that mistake fairly quickly.
Because at the origin of the format, “choosy graphic designers choose .GIF”. Which is a direct reference to JIF, the brand of peanut butter, and their tagline.
The pronunciation of an acronym often has little to nothing to do with the words themselves they represent, and more to do with the acronym itself as though it were a word.
Reverse that.
.jif (jpeg interchange format) came out 5 years after .gif.
It was an homage to GIF.
If you pronounce gif based on the word itself, it would clearly have a hard “G”. I don’t think it’s decided by the creator anymore then by the words making up the acronym either.
Imo, word pronunciation and meaning depends on whatever “takes” in society. Most just say it like it would sound, the creators pronunciation clearly lost.
I don’t think it’s decided by the creator anymore then by the words making up the acronym either.
I mean, they got to name it… How it sounds is part of that…
Most just say it like it would sound, the creators pronunciation clearly lost.
How long have people been talking about how to pronounce gif?
I don’t think there are any winners or losers here.
I mean, they got to name it… How it sounds is part of that
How it sounds is a lot more related to basic prononciation rules then the arbitrary whims of the inventor.
In this case, he chose to name it GIF which is, believe it or not, pronounced gif in the English language. If he wanted to have it sound like jif, he should have named it JIF.
Not to say that we don’t sometimes disregard the rules for certain words. Ultimately a words meaning and prononciation is collectively decided through usage. I think collectively, we have chosen to ignore the creators lack of basic linguistic skills and prononce the word how it’s written.
let’s focus on the whole “who gets to choose how a name is pronounced”
A words meaning and prononciation is collectively decided through usage.
So the creator, the way a soft vs hard g is used in the English language, etc, none of that matters.
Noted, enjoy your day.
Girl, gift, gig, giggle, giddy, gizzard, gibbon, girth, girdle.
It’s not uncommon.
But yes, what matters most is how people prononce it. Even if this goes against what the creator wants.
The main dictionary websites wouldn’t have the hard g prononciation if the creators will was the defining factor.
A words meaning and prononciation is collectively decided through usage.
I agree. I know a ton of people that say it one way, and a ton of people who say it the other. At this point, like many English words in a similar scenario, both pronunciations are valid. I prefer to use the creator’s pronunciation, but I think saying it the other way is acceptable. At this point, everyone will know what you’re talking about regardless of pronunciation.
Gist Digit Giraffe Fragile Vigilant Gingerly Geological Agile Engine Original Region Allergic Longitude Giant
Tragic.
In this case, he chose to name it GIF which is, believe it or not, pronounced gif in the English language. If he wanted to have it sound like jif, he should have named it JIF.
Incorrect. There are ZERO rules that decide whether a word starts with a hard g or a soft g.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_and_soft_G
There are patterns so to speak. Rules isn’t the right word. In any case, my whole point is that rules or what the creator wants dont matter.
The proper prononciation is the most common and widely used one since languages are constantly evolving.
CileTheSaneHow long have people been talking about how to pronounce gif? I don’t think there are any winners or losers here.
I agree there are no winners, there have been plenty of losers.
The closest word to gif is gift for me. I think that’s the conclusion most come to and why the hard G is the most common.
A pronunciation that is common and widespread becomes the correct way to say something. Languages are constantly evolving and in movement. They don’t care for what a few or even the words creator want.
I think that’s the conclusion most come to and why the hard G is the most common.
You’re literally just making up things at this point. Just because you thought that does not mean even a slight minority thought or thinks that.
Just because you thought that does not mean even a slight minority thought or thinks that.
Did a quick search for a survey, first link has 77% pronouncing it with a hard g:
meyerweb.com/eric/…/results-of-the-gif-survey/
You’re welcome to present a survey that shows a different result.
Results of the GIF Survey
The GIF Survey is complete. In just under a week, 1,457 people gave their answers on how they pronounce the acronym, and their perceptions of the rightness of that pronunciation. I thought that, today of all days, it made some sense to share the results of a far less momentous poll. For those who missed, […]
you’re not even the person I was talking to
Correct. You are having a conversation in a public forum. If you want a private conversation take it to PMs. I was replying to the specific thing you said that I quoted.
The fact that you could not follow that despite me quoting the relevant sentence, and did not notice I was a different person, shows you are not paying attention to what is actually being said.
Norah (pup/it/she)Wouldn’t doubt it.
Some folks get unreasonably mad about what they consider “right”.
I’m pointing to the lead of the team that created it. They get to name it, not me.
I’m also not oddly mad about it like the person replying to me with lots of exclamation points, the user in OPs image, or the person using their alt that has only been used to downvote people they are in conversations with for the past few months.
All I said was the people responsible for it say its a soft g, not a hard g.
or the person using their alt that has only been used to downvote people they are in conversations with for the past few months.
Wow. You did a lot of research into who has been downvoting you for someone who isn’t mad about this…
When it repeats on certain conversations it becomes a bit obvious, and full history of a user is visible with a single click.
Its really not the effort you think it is.