Mastodawn

Remember that this article is shrieking about a 17% decline in European tourists visiting the USA … back in *March*, only two months into the Trump administration and six months ago.

The endless litany of news about abusive ICE behaviour since then means tourism is probably down significantly further by now.

(I know I for one cancelled all US visit plans after last November 7th. Otherwise right now I'd be in Seattle.)
https://mastodonapp.uk/@marqle/115044978561690299

marqle (@[email protected])

I think this story maybe missing one very big reason #Europeans don't want to visit the #usa at the moment. Of course there is some resentment, but there's a bigger portion of concern I think. We don't feel as safe going through us airports as we used to. I don't want to be treated like a suspect when I travel. In fact I won't put up with that. #America just isn't important enough to me to justify that treatment. https://www.rudebaguette.com/en/2025/08/airports-feel-like-ghost-towns-us-tourism-reels-as-european-boycott-slashes-visitor-numbers-and-drains-billions-from-the-economy/ #tourism #travel #Airports #EU #geopolitics

Mastodon App UK

Ms. Denie Aug 18, 2025

@cstross on tumblr (I know) someone mentioned that there's a significant drop in tourism to the US, with US'ians discovering there's tourists from all over Europe in ICE detention "facilities". Which gets covered in their native countries, thus discouraging tourism to the US even further.

Charlie Stross Aug 18, 2025

@A_denie Yes, I know: I'm one of those discouraged European tourists.

George B Aug 18, 2025

The difference in tourist attendance for games in the US, Canada and Mexico at the world cup next year will be stark

George B Aug 18, 2025

I wonder if Trump might call the National Guard to fill out the seats and somehow call it a matter of national security

Charlie Stross Aug 18, 2025

@gbargoud Especially as half the competitors from Africa, Asia, and South/Central America won't be allowed in by the we're-recruiting-with-nazi-dogwhistles-now ICE border guards.

Raven667 Aug 18, 2025

@cstross @gbargoud Side thought but I wonder how strong this effect will be given that the IOC and FIFA routinely work with repressive regimes, or ones with horrendous human rights eg. Russia, China, Saudi, Dubai (Maybe North Korea is the bridge too far for them), so while the standards in the US have dropped like a stone, I don't know how that compares to other places that international sports operates, although I expect attendance in the US will be depressed because unlike some of those other places, ICE seems to delight in hassling obvious tourists, not just some local ethnic minority, most places carve out a safe(er) haven from their local flavor of racism for tourists, but not US because it's run by idiots.

Roadskater, Ph.D.Aug 18, 2025

@cstross At least there haven't been screwy threats about the US annexing your country. The Canuckistanis are pretty pissed off, and their tourism numbers visiting "the meth lab downstairs" are tanking.

Charlie Stross Aug 18, 2025

@roadskater Not to worry, the invade-and-conquer aspect of the global fascist front has been outsourced, in Europe, to Russia. (Just look at the remarmanent spending boom now in progress in places like Poland and the Baltic States.)

Roadskater, Ph.D.Aug 18, 2025

@cstross I have tons of respect for the Polish skaters I follow on Strava. Some of them post up amazing (mind-boggling) distances. But jeebus, yes, they're on the edge of a war front, apparently expecting they're not next?

Basement Chippy Aug 18, 2025

@roadskater @cstross Poland has started mandatory firearm training for highschool students.

Per Newsweek: “The curriculum encompasses firearms handling, state security education, survival skills, tactical rescue, first aid, and cybersecurity. Students will also be taught how to assemble and disassemble weapons.”

Nazani Aug 18, 2025

@mfarrar @roadskater @cstross This is Putin's one great success: militarizing Europe.

Charlie Stross Aug 18, 2025

@Nazani @mfarrar @roadskater Yep! After decades of neutrality, Putin drove Sweden and Finland screaming into the arms of NATO membership, and freaking *Switzerland* is seeking closer ties with NATO since February 2022.

Basement Chippy Aug 18, 2025

@cstross @Nazani @roadskater I had a Swede once explain to me that, they used stronger language mind, mistrust of Russia is part of cultural identity for peoples on the Baltic.

Nazani Aug 18, 2025

@mfarrar @cstross @roadskater Completely justified.

Världens bästa Kille™Aug 18, 2025

@mfarrar @cstross @Nazani @roadskater Yeah. ”When the Russians come” is what we often say instead of ”when shit hits the fan”.

I had the idea of making bullet proof prams, with molle/PALS webbing, tactical style, big wheels, that sorta thing, and market them in the US.

”Designed in Sweden. Because growing up next to Russia makes you think.”

adamrice Aug 18, 2025

@thelovebing @mfarrar @cstross @Nazani @roadskater As I recall, tactical prams were a bit of futuristic flair in William Gibson’s The Peripheral.

Charlie Stross Aug 18, 2025

@adamrice @thelovebing @mfarrar @Nazani @roadskater Which I still have not read …

Världens bästa Kille™Aug 19, 2025

@cstross @adamrice @mfarrar @Nazani @roadskater

You really should read all of his stuff. Bloody Nostradamus that guy, but with novels.

And yeah, it was. Russian tactical prams, if I recall.

Charlie Stross Aug 19, 2025

@thelovebing @adamrice @mfarrar @Nazani @roadskater

*Side-eyes the signed first edition of Neuromancer sitting on the bookshelf*

I am aware of @GreatDismal 's body of work, yes.

Världens bästa Kille™Aug 19, 2025

@cstross Good for you!

@adamrice @mfarrar @Nazani @roadskater @GreatDismal

Roadskater, Ph.D.Aug 19, 2025

@cstross @thelovebing @adamrice @mfarrar @Nazani @GreatDismal Is that the 1984 Ace science Fiction Special? If so, I have a copy bought back in the day, and wow is it beat all to F.

Charlie Stross Aug 19, 2025

@roadskater @thelovebing @adamrice @mfarrar @Nazani @GreatDismal Yep, same! Bought it when it came out, now a *very* dog-eared paperback with yellowing paper.

Roadskater, Ph.D.Aug 19, 2025

@cstross @thelovebing @adamrice @mfarrar @Nazani @GreatDismal Sounds in better condition than my copy!

Roadskater, Ph.D.Aug 19, 2025

@cstross @thelovebing @adamrice @mfarrar @Nazani @GreatDismal Reminded that within the last two days, I saw e thread here on Mastodon where someone was asking about the best SF titles of the 21st century. Amongst the too many fantasy titles that were recommended, someone brought up Gibson's "Necromancer". Wait, WTF?

Why Not Zoidberg? 🦑Aug 18, 2025

@mfarrar @roadskater @cstross

This is why I get livid every time some privileged "pacifist" in the US on social media tries to blame Ukraine / NATO for the war.

Basement Chippy Aug 18, 2025

@WhyNotZoidberg @roadskater @cstross I haven’t encountered that but our biggest export is stupid ideas, so…

Basement Chippy Aug 18, 2025

@WhyNotZoidberg @roadskater @cstross oh, wait, actually I have encountered it just not from a self-labeled pacifist. Come to think of it that was when I stopped listening to that person.

An absurd notion, blaming the victim.

Fazal Majid Aug 18, 2025

@mfarrar @roadskater @cstross and Lithuania is training kids in drone warfare:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/lithuania-drones-children-russia-ukraine-war-b2808140.html

Lithuania to teach school children how to use drones to counter Russian threat

Around 7,000 children are to be taught drone skills by 2028, Lithuania’s defence minister said

The Independent

🔶Mark Nicoll 3.5%🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🇬🇧🇪🇺🇺🇳Aug 18, 2025

@mfarrar @roadskater @cstross
we should teach survival skills, first aid, and cybersecurity in schools everywhere.

Raven667 Aug 18, 2025

@roadskater Poland has been leading the way in defense of Ukraine _because_ they know they are always on the menu, they aren't cowering they are defiant. Pray that Russia can be stopped, but if not, Skate until that day comes, is what I imagine they are thinking

@cstross, “remarmanent”? I'm assuming that it's a typo…

Charlie Stross Aug 18, 2025

@lp0_on_fire I have rapidly worsening cataracts—first eyeball is up for surgery tomorrow. I can only read by word shapes at present. Bite me.

@cstross, yes, I'm aware – just was one of those which looked like it should be a word, in this case somewhere between marmalade and weapons.

Hopefully, things will look a lot clearer soon.

mtc_uk Aug 18, 2025

@cstross @lp0_on_fire
Cataract surgery is fucking miraculous, and you will think it one of the best things that’s ever happened to you. I never cease to be thankful for mine.

Joe W Aug 18, 2025

@cstross @lp0_on_fire I remember when my grandma had hers 30 or so years so. She even got a VHS tape from the surgery and the whole family had to watch it. It was a miracle then.
Good luck!

wiredog Aug 18, 2025

@cstross @lp0_on_fire

IIRC, you’ll be able to see into the uv spectrum after.

Duck Marshall 🚲Aug 18, 2025

@cstross I went to the US to see my family, in April, and I've never seen USA Pre-Clearance in Dublin so quiet! It made for a pleasant journey there but it was _really hard_ to be there, as someone who's been watching US politics from the UK for nearly 20 years

HollieK Aug 18, 2025

@cstross OH declined an invitation to go to the company meet-up/conference thing in Florida later on this year, commenting that he didn't feel comfortable going to the US in the current political climate.

I've moved to [email protected]Aug 18, 2025

@HollieK72 Many Americans won't go to Florida either.

xs4me2 Aug 18, 2025

Trump is a major disaster. For the USA and for the rest of the world.

Morgunin Aug 18, 2025

Told my sister and her family when I visited her back in October that I wouldn’t be visiting them again for the foreseeable future if Trump was elected. I saw this coming and, well, here we are.

The future looks bleak.

Graeme 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿Aug 18, 2025

@cstross Yes, Trumpistan should be on everyone's blacklist.

MW1CFN Aug 18, 2025

@cstross Simple solution: fire the people telling you the tourist numbers are down and replace them with someone who tells you they are vastly up on Biden's time in office!

Once upon a time, that would have sounded absurd...

ferricoxide Aug 18, 2025

@MW1CFN @cstross

While that would work for federal reporting:

* It won't work for states (that don't care about #TrumpTantrums)
* It won't work for individual destination-owners' reporting, particularly those that have SEC-related reporting-requirements (e.g., Disney, Vegas hoteliers, etc.)

MW1CFN Aug 18, 2025

@ferricoxide @cstross That's the good news. 👍

Robin Barton Aug 18, 2025

@cstross Canadian visits have dropped also

Charlie Stross Aug 18, 2025

@Robo105 AIUI Canadian visits to the US have dropped because Trump pissed them off by talking about an invasion. I believe European visits have dropped because of simple fear for personal safety.

alex.tm Aug 18, 2025

@cstross @Robo105 For Canadians, it’s both. ICE are detaining Canadians too, it’s been all over the news here.

Robin Barton Aug 18, 2025

@alextm @cstross True, why support an economy that is threatening takeover. I also have no interest in visiting El Salvador. I won't be visiting usa any time soon I am sorry to say

Robin Barton Aug 18, 2025

@cstross I agree

Nate Aug 18, 2025

@cstross
And we miss you in Seattle, but we're glad you're not taking the risk of coming to our country.

Charlie Stross Aug 18, 2025

@nolsen311 I gather Montreal won the 2027 worldcon big, so I should be there in due course. (Not doing Anaheim next year.)

Basement Chippy Aug 18, 2025

@cstross More likely than not, you can look up various metrics out of Las Vegas. Is one of the most traveled-to cities internationally.

Hotel bookings, casino earnings, festival/convention attendance, concert ticket sales, etc.

GLC Aug 18, 2025

Random article from a search (seems reasonable):

https://www.visaverge.com/news/las-vegas-tourism-declines-sharply-in-2025-amid-economic-challenges/

Las Vegas Tourism Declines Sharply in 2025 Amid Economic Challenges

In 2025, Las Vegas experiences a 6.5% decrease in visitors, lower hotel occupancy, and reduced gaming revenues due to economic uncertainty, high costs, and fewer major events. International arrivals fell drastically, particularly from Canada and Europe. Industry responses include promotions, legislative changes, and marketing increases to support tourism recovery.

VisaVerge

Basement Chippy Aug 18, 2025

@glc yeah, that’s not a great outlook, especially the 30-50% drop in international flights. I’m not particularly concerned for the Strip, it’ll survive, but it sucks for all the small local places and the hospitality workers that I’m sure will face layoffs before too long.

As usual, the wealthy and powerful get to fuck around and everyone at the bottom are the ones that get to find out.

Lawrence Aug 18, 2025

@cstross
When someone compares ICE with the SS or SA the only difference is ICE has not yet reached the Shoot First mode. But I don't see that far off in the future.

@iveyline Aug 18, 2025

@cstross ICE are killing US tourism.

Charlie Stross Aug 18, 2025

@Iveyline Tell me something I don't know from personal experience.

maya_b 🇨🇦Aug 18, 2025

at least in Canada at airports we still do US customs on Canadian soil, so if you absolutely must travel to the US it's the only safe-ish way to cross the border as they can't detain you Canada, they can only send you back.

not that any Canadians are choosing to go to the US right now anyway but if needs must then fly.

Latte macchiato

ablobcat_longlong

@cstross Yeah, I'd have been over there twice this year otherwise. Nope.