Mastodawn

salty_chief Jul 20, 2025

Yeah, no profits means no business! Down with businesses! We don’t need them for paychecks or healthcare! 🤣

Cowbee [he/they]

Capitalism is not the only mode of production in existence. We can collectivize production and run it in a planned manner. We can’t do that all at once, but in socialism we can gradually wrest capital from the capitalists and collectively run and plan the economy.

Edit: responding to your edit, socialism is not “welfare in capitalist systems.” Your comment didn’t go over anyone’s heads, you just don’t know what socialism and capitalism are.

salty_chief Jul 20, 2025

Neither system is perfect. Pure capitalism can lead to inequality and under-provided public services, while pure socialism can stifle innovation and create inefficiency. The best-performing countries today typically combine elements of both.

So as anything in life too much of one thing can be bad. It would be nice for everyone to receive free healthcare and higher education in US. I often watch various global news networks. It is odd to see US, Canada, UK all struggling with same issues economically.

UK has 28 million people on assistance out of work. It also has 28 million people employed. So half the UK is paying to support the other half. That is wild to think about.

Canada has a housing crisis currently.

Cowbee [he/they]Jul 20, 2025

There’s no such thing as “pure capitalism” or “pure socialism.” Every socialist system has elements of private property, and every capitalist system has elements of public property. A system is capitalist if the large firms and key industries are private, and socialist if the large firms and key industries are public. This is all nonsense on your part, socialist systems have been at the peak of innovation throughout the 20th and 21st centuries.

I’m not sure why you brought up a bunch of capitalist countries failing because of issues systemic to capitalism at the end, it didn’t really help your point. Moreover, there is no “combining the best of both,” the system is determined by what is principle, meaning you can’t be both. Furthermore, I think you’re alluding to the Nordic Countries, but those are capitalist, deteriorating, and depend on imperialism like the rest of the global north.

I think you should do a bit more reading on what socialism and communism even are to begin with before trying to have discussions about them, same with capitalism.

salty_chief Jul 20, 2025

Hate to break it to you like this but US has both Capitalism and Social programs. Social programs are social security, medicare and public schools.

Cowbee [he/they]Jul 20, 2025

Social programs are not socialism. Welfare exists in both capitalist systems and socialist systems, which is why I explained that what determines the system is which form of production is principle, private or public. The US, Norway, Singapore, etc are capitalist, plain and simple. Countries like Cuba, the PRC, and former USSR are examples of socialism.

Again, I think you need to do more reading if you want to actually have a conversation about socialism, capitalism, and communism. If you want, I have an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list, or this crash course on socialism made by Dessalines is good as well.

Read Theory, Darn it! An Introductory Reading List for Marxism-Leninism - Lemmy

“Without Revolutionary theory, there can be no Revolutionary Movement.” — Vladimir Lenin, What is to be Done? [http://www.marx2mao.com/Lenin/WD02.html] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/seGAATanGtfufEkQoLH1X3] It’s time to read theory, comrades! As Lenin says, “Despair is typical of those who do not understand the causes of evil, see no way out, and are incapable of struggle.” Marxism-Leninism is broken into 3 major components, as noted by Lenin in his pamphlet The Three Sources and Three Component Parts of Marxism [http://www.marx2mao.com/Lenin/CPM13.html]: | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/8yUvkgJ4m5ZHPdESAyjg8k] 1. Dialectical and Historical Materialism 2. Critique of Capitalism along the lines of Marx’s Law of Value 3. Advocacy for Revolutionary and Scientific Socialism As such, I created the following list to take you from no knowledge whatsoever of Leftist theory, and leave you with a strong understanding of the critical fundamentals of Marxism-Leninism in an order that builds up as you read. Let’s get started! Section I: Getting Started What the heck is Communism, anyways? For that matter, what is fascism? 1. Friedrich Engels’ Principles of Communism [http://www.marx2mao.com/M&E/PC47.html] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/8JtpMuYQ6Ho6gzYtLLuL4k] The FAQ of Communism, written by the Luigi of the Marx & Engels duo. Quick to read, and easy to reference, this is the perfect start to your journey. 2. Michael Parenti’s Blackshirts and Reds [https://c.encryptionin.space/epubs/blackshirts-and-reds/] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/uZFGgeJsE4bHHBTd1m3eFK] Parenti’s characteristic wit is on full display in this historical contextualization and analysis of fascism and Communism. Line after line, Parenti debunks anti-Communist myths. This is also an excellent time to watch the famous “Yellow Parenti” [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xP8CzlFhc14] speech. Section II: Historical and Dialectical Materialism Ugh, philosophy? Really? YES! 3. Georges Politzer’s Elementary Principles of Philosophy [https://c.encryptionin.space/epubs/elementary-principles-of-philosophy/] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/wv44hU6NjoLgn6yrnXBQjc] By understanding Dialectical and Historical Materialism first, you make it easier to understand the rest of Marxism-Leninism. Don’t be intimidated! 4. Friedrich Engels’ Socialism: Utopian and Scientific [http://www.marx2mao.com/M&E/SUS80.html] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/nhVVanPX5WPVor7Yy7TDrp?start=3h13m40s] Engels introduces Scientific Socialism, explaining how Capitalism itself prepares the conditions for public ownership and planning by centralizing itself into monopolist syndicates and cartels. Section III: Political Economy That’s right, it’s time for the Law of Value and a deep-dive into Imperialism. If we are to defeat Capitalism, we must learn it’s mechanisms, tendencies, contradictions, and laws. 5. Karl Marx’s Wage Labor and Capital [http://www.marx2mao.com/M&E/WLC47.html] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/nhVVanPX5WPVor7Yy7TDrp?start=1h35m58s] & Wages, Price and Profit [http://www.marx2mao.com/M&E/WPP65.html] | Audiobook [https://youtube.com/watch?v=TjhVZW3HJzM] Best taken as a pair, these essays simplify the most important parts of the Law of Value. 6. Vladimir Lenin’s Imperialism, The Highest Stage of Capitalism [http://www.marx2mao.com/Lenin/IMP16.html] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/8STrUAEfwiFGRFcRsSNqtv] The era of Imperialism, which as the primary contradiction cascades downward into all manner of related secondary contradictions. Section IV: Revolutionary and Scientific Socialism Can we defeat Capitalism at the ballot box? What about just defeating fascism? What about the role of the state? 7. Rosa Luxemburg’s Reform or Revolution [https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1900/reform-revolution/] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/k5tp58hyGPpTRUtpB79Kra] If Marxists believed reforming Capitalist society was possible, we would be the first in line for it. Sadly, it isn’t. 8. Vladimir Lenin’s The State and Revolution [http://www.marx2mao.com/Lenin/SR17.html] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/6M8bL2HGs5rGXmvThU1JG5] Further analyzes the necessity of Revolution and introduces the economic basis for the withering away of the State. Section V: National Liberation, De-colonialism, and Solidarity The revolution will not be fought by individuals, but by an intersectional, international working class movement. Solidarity allows different marginalized groups to work together in collective interest, unifying into a single broad movement. Marxists support the Right of Self-Determination for all peoples and support National Liberation movements against Imperialism. 9. Vikky Storm & Eme Flores’ The Gender Accelerationist Manifesto [https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/vikky-storm-the-gender-accelerationist-manifesto] | (No Audiobook yet) Breaks down misogyny, and queerphobia, as well as how to move beyond the base subject of “gender” from a Historical Materialist perspective. 10. Leslie Feinberg’s Lavender & Red [https://www.workers.org/book/lavender-red/] | Audiobook [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXUFLW8t2snsEPC7kkMKkZf-45FrnJTO7] When different social groups fight for liberation together along intersectional lines, they are emboldened and empowered ever-further. 11. Frantz Fanon’s The Wretched of the Earth [https://archive.org/details/the-wretched-of-the-earth] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/p/f3tK7UC2HAK1WLUNg4yVen] & Paulo Freire’s Pedagogy of the Oppressed [https://archive.org/details/FreirePedagogyOfTheOppresed] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/koxxesz38QPVKaAFr8iVTF] De-colonialism is essential to Marxism. Without having a strong, de-colonial, internationalist stance, we have no path to victory nor justice. These books are best taken as a pair, read in quick succession. Section VI: Putting it into Practice! It’s not enough to endlessly read, you must put theory to practice. That is how you can improve yourself and the movements you support. Touch grass! 12. Mao Tse-Tung’s On Practice [http://www.marx2mao.com/Mao/OP37.html] & On Contradiction [http://www.marx2mao.com/Mao/OC37.html] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/qnzYg56huhwgKYk9Py3mcR] Mao wrote simply and directly to peasant soldiers during the Revolutionary War in China. This pair of essays equip the reader to apply the analytical tools of Dialectical Materialism to their every day practice. 13. Vladimir Lenin’s “Left-Wing” Communism, an Infantile Disorder [http://www.marx2mao.com/Lenin/LWC20.html] | Audiobook [https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wh84f8czc7g] Common among new leftists is dogmatism over pragmatism. Everyone wants perfection, but dogmatic “left” anti-Communists let perfection become the enemy of progress. 14. Jones Manoel’s Western Marxism Loves Purity and Martyrdom, But Not Real Revolution [https://blackagendareport.com/western-marxism-loves-purity-and-martyrdom-not-real-revolution] | (No Audiobook yet) Common among western leftists is fetishization of Marxism, rather than using it as a tool for analysis and social change. This article helps rectify that. 15. Liu Shaoqi’s How to be a Good Communist [https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/liu-shaoqi/1939/how-to-be/index.htm] | Audiobook [https://tankie.tube/w/kzi58GMjH9DzSBqz1eTXVb] Organizing is a skill. If we are to be successful, we must work to better ourselves. Congratulations, you completed your introductory reading course! With your new understanding and knowledge of Marxism-Leninism, here is a mini What is to be Done? of your own to follow, and take with you as practical advice. 1. Get organized. The Party for Socialism and Liberation [https://pslweb.org/], Freedom Road Socialist Organization [https://frso.org/], and Red Star Caucus [https://redstarcaucus.org/] all organize year round, every year, because the battle for progress is a constant struggle. See if there is a chapter near you, or start one! 2. Read theory. Don’t think that you are done now! Just because you have the basics, doesn’t mean you know more than you do. If you have not investigated a subject, don’t speak on it! 3. Aggressively combat white supremacy, misogyny, queerphobia, and other attacks on marginalized communities. Cede no ground, let nobody go forgotten. 4. Be industrious, and self-sufficient. Take up gardening, home repair, tinkering. It is through practice that you elevate your knowledge. 5. Learn self-defense. Get armed, if practical. Be ready to protect yourself and others. 6. Be persistent. If you feel like a single water droplet against a mountain, think of canyons and valleys. With consistency, every rock, boulder, mountain, can be drilled through with nothing but water droplets. “Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent.” — Mao Tse-Tung Credits [https://lemmy.ml/comment/15046925]

Scandinavian Social Democratic countries, like Sweden, Norway, Denmark, and Finland, have much higher standards of living, better quality universal healthcare, and more economic, political, and social freedoms than Marxist-Leninist states have ever had. I'll need a citation for these countries deteriorating. You saying that these countries are still imperialist doesn't negate how much better they are to live in.
@Cowbee @salty_chief
#socialism #communism #capitalism #socialdemocracy

@Radical_EgoCom @Cowbee @salty_chief

Unfortunately, you don't understand what you're talking about. These Social Democracies (really capitalistic states with strong worker protections) still benefit from imperialism on the Global South.

The contradictions inherent to capitalism still exist within these states as well. There are proletarians and there are bourgeoisie. The cost of living within these states is rapidly increasing, and reactionary sentiment is booming because people from the (1)

@Radical_EgoCom @Cowbee @salty_chief (2) countries that these states, which you almost call utopian, have been destabilizing, are immigrating to these states en masse.

"[Scandinavian states] have much higher standards of living, better quality universal healthcare, and more economic, political, and social freedoms than Marxist-Leninist states have ever had."

What a ridiculous statement. China and the USSR went from backwater peasant countries to world superpowers in less than a century.

@Radical_EgoCom @Cowbee @salty_chief (3) Their citizens pay very little for housing, healthcare, food, transportation, and education, all without the colonization and terrorism that these Scandinavian states do.

When the proletariat is the ruling class of the state, the state will work within the proletariat's self interest, and crush bourgeois oppression.

Bourgeois democracies like these Scandinavian states only work in the interest of the bourgeoisie, and placate the proletariat.

@Radical_EgoCom @Cowbee @salty_chief (4) All states you have mentioned permit lobbying (bribing of parliamentary representatives), and they bail out large corporations in times of crisis. This is bourgeois rule. People like you are a consequence of CIA propaganda and illiteracy.

Nordic states aren't utopian or without fault. They provide a better standard of living than Marxist-Leninist states, which do provide free healthcare and housing, but the best of these things are reserved for people with higher social status like party members and their families. There's much better quality housing and healthcare for people in Nordic states than Marxist-Leninist states had/have and distributed more equally.
@graythehue @Cowbee @salty_chief
#socialism #communism #capitalism

Nordic citizens also have far more social, economic, and political freedoms than their ML counterparts. Life for workers and people in general is clearly better in theee Nordic countries. [END]
@graythehue @Cowbee @salty_chief
#socialism #communism #capitalism

@Radical_EgoCom @Cowbee @salty_chief What a baseless qualitative measurement. Please continue to be a sycophant for these states, while their cadre terrorize people in the Global South, hitlerite.

@graythehue @Cowbee @salty_chief

The qualities I'm measuring are things like individual freedoms and the quality of healthcare and housing, but apparently, these means of measuring are "baseless" to you, so why don't you tell me what means of measuring you used to conclude that ML states are better than Nordic states

@Cowbee @salty_chief Don't waste your time arguing with these sorts of people. They refuse to do preliminary research and parrot the latest AmeriKKKan talking points. They have their heads up their asses while socialist countries like China and Vietnam rapidly advance their standard of living. Genuinely sad how blind these people are.

I don't deny that China and Vietnam's standards of living are improving, but what are their standards of living currently, what criteria are you using when measuring standards of living, and are their standards of living better than the best capitalism has produced?
@graythehue @Cowbee @salty_chief

micchiato 🎋Jul 20, 2025

@salty_chief

To paraphrase Molly Ivins, capitalism does one thing well: it generates wealth. The idea that it is innovative is a ruse designed to disguise how it treats people as a means to the end of wealth generation. The acquisitive design leads to monopoly and suppression of innovation that might challenge exploitation of labor and resources.