Martin RundkvistUniversal basic income would largely obviate the entire issue. The welfare state spends huge money needlessly just on judging who should get a given benefit.
spiegelmama@mrundkvist I'm getting a little tired of reading about all the studies that show UBI works well and pays for itself. I wish we'd stop studying and start implementing.
@grrlscientist
@grrlscientist
Wilfried Klaebe@spiegelmama B-but to finance that, we'd need to tax billionaires, and they cannot have that.
The Sleight Doctor 🃏@spiegelmama @mrundkvist @grrlscientist The macroeconomics says it would create hyperinflationary pressures over time. For some reason, it keeps being trialed only for a few months, which doesn't really test these predictions. Also, it's a right-wing idea supported by the likes of Friedman and Hayek, who saw it as a form of rapid upward wealth redistribution and a means to dismantle all other means of social support.
quixote@ApostateEnglishman @spiegelmama @mrundkvist @grrlscientist So macroecon says that if everyone gets UBI, including poor people who can buy what they need, that'll be so much increased demand chasing supply that we'll get inflation?
The inflation must come from the money available to poors, not middles or riches, since that's the only big difference. The other two classes would presumably be just as likely to save/invest it, wouldn't they?
If macroecon has a problem with less poverty, it's the econ that needs fixing, not the reduced poverty.
@quixote @spiegelmama @mrundkvist @grrlscientist I'm not arguing against reducing poverty. I'm an advocate for massively progressive taxation - essentially making billionaires non-existent to safeguard our democracies; the extension of existing social programs; and, most importantly, a Job Garauntee, in which jobs not provided by markets (because they aren't profitable) are subsidized by the government.
All this is what most modern monetary theorists (MMTers) advocate.👇
@ApostateEnglishman Oh, no thank you to busy work created by able-bodied extroverts who think everyone is like themselves. And I'd like to see the analysis that shows unemployment is bad for families because mommy and daddy aren't away from the home for 8-10 hours a day rather than because so little money is coming in. Here's why UBI is better: the extroverts will still want to get together and work, and the ambitious will want to make more so they can get a bigger house. Imagine if you could get ahead by doing something useful like cleaning hotel rooms or hand-finishing clothing items instead of gambling on markets or selling iterated products with planned obsolescence. Meanwhile, disabled folks won't have to prove each year that they're still disabled, parents will get to choose to raise their own children, and artists will get to develop their vision. I'm not going to solve the problem of inflation, but I get the feeling it's one of those "invisible market forces" that are just unrestrained capitalist practices.
@spiegelmama @quixote @mrundkvist @grrlscientist I understand where you're coming from. My entire career has been devoted to helping the less fortunate. I was senior support lead for adults with complex needs, for which our small team won an award. I wasn't saying get rid of existing social support programs or reduce benefits. I said precisely the opposite (read it again).
I was advocating for an EXPANSION of social support alongside a Job Garauntee for THOSE WHO ARE BOTH WILLING AND ABLE.
@ApostateEnglishman (I wasn't, or didn't mean to, imply _you_ were arguing against dealing with poverty. Not remotely. sorry about that!
I meant just that when I listen to economic theories they often seem to contain stuff like, "well of course some quotient of misery is essential to keep this working." Not that they say that, of course. They use other terms. But that's what it means.
@quixote @spiegelmama @mrundkvist @grrlscientist
"The inflation must come from the money available to poors, not middles or riches, since that's the only big difference..."
No it isn't! Rich and poor have vastly different spending constraints. You cannot create inflationary pressures by redistributing money to those who already have more than they can ever spend. You *can* do so by giving everyone more money regardless of what they produce, because national spending could exceed production.