20 years of online shopping and a whole industry excited to collect data and autofill and address checking functions STILL mess up apartments.

The system is set up to work well with houses, but there is no consensus on if "apartment/suite" should be a separate field or not... and it's also still often rendered wrong, and makes bad suggestions such as "correcting"

123ABC to 123Abc

Granted when I worked in database design this was my "thing" so I'm hypercritical ... but still.

I get personally offended because I suspect that it's some kind of American suburban-centric mentality that makes apartments an afterthought.

The correct answer is that "apartment suite" should be a separate field NOT tacked on to the street address, but in most renderings it should be on the same line with a comma.

And you need to deftly separate this information if the user tries to enter it in the address line.

ANYWAY.

Every now and then I STILL encounter a system that just can't handle the existence of apartments. There is no way to enter the information because they use an address checker that strips it away... but don't have their own field to store the data.
@futurebird I mean, how many people in New York live in multi-unit dwellings, like a hundred?

@funkula

Yeah that's very typical. There are like 100 units in our building but next door it's about 300.

@futurebird oh wow so there's 400 of you. Still a drop in the bucket compared to the 12 million mcmansions on half-acre lots that comprise the rest of the city's housing stock
@futurebird (I was going for a Lucille Bluth banana moment)

@funkula

dude there's like 20k units added every year. i guess it must be fun to be so arrogantly wrong (and prove her point) tho

https://www.institutionalpropertyadvisors.com/research/market-report/multifamily/new-york-city/new-york-city-2q25-multifamily-market-report

New York Multifamily Market Report

High-End Apartments Rebound, While Value- Oriented Properties Face Crosscurrents

@bug I really thought I was being sufficiently ridiculous that no one could read that as serious.
@funkula @bug sarcasm is hard online.

@funkula

Having a single house address in NYC means one of few things things:

1. You live in deep Brooklyn, Queens, SI or maybe the Bronx. These are working class and middle class neighborhoods and the opposite of mansions.
2. You are one of like 37 people who have one of the few intact brownstones, and probably gave your house a damn name for some reason "The Glopper House" it's as expensive as a mansion but not as big. You brag about your 4' by 8' backyard.
3. You are the Mayor.

@funkula

Given that I brag about our roof garden all the time I can't be too hard on the people who brag about those tiny dark little yards where you can't even grown corn. (rooftop garden>tiny yard)

@futurebird I haven't had this problem in the past 2 years, but the occasional site that does not offer DC as a state. Or insist that the state is “Washington DC”. Nope, Washington is the city, DC is the state. I remember once contacting support and they said to just enter Washington as the state.

Now you have me on a roll. How about asking for zip code first so city and state can be automated. I realize that sometimes the city will be wrong but allow the person to fix it.

@paulc @futurebird

I have seen sites that ask for zip first! It's very convenient. Unfortunately, I can't recall any that allow the city to be overridden (not that I ever need to), although since I put in the street address already, maybe they can always figure it out (or maybe they just think they can).

@futurebird in Singapore I sometimes encounter the opposite problem. The vast majority of people live in tower blocks so some areas systems demand a unit number and floor number. They get confused when it's an independent house.
@futurebird
I have to pay a particular vendor every quarter, but I can't pay them via QuickBooks because their address checker puts them in the wrong village with the wrong ZIP code, and won't permit a manual override.

@futurebird

Plu ca change...

One of my first programming tasks was in 1985 - coding mailing list sw for a non-profit. Asking for zip/postal code first, then populating unique fields automatically, plus structured+validated fields per the USPS - it wasn't rocket science, but 99.99% of systems still got it wrong.

Add in the failure of every single system to adequately deal with multiple recipients at the same address, and it was already clear computers were shaping up to be a bad idea.

@lolcat @futurebird Bringing to mind Douglas Adams on the subject of coming out of the trees...

“Many were increasingly of the opinion that they’d all made a big mistake in coming down from the trees in the first place. And some said that even the trees had been a bad move, and that no one should ever have left the oceans.”

@Bishopjoey @futurebird

...and at least half of American adults are apparently deeply skeptical of the whole trees/oceans story - leading the rest of us to question even the move to multicellularism.

@futurebird
For the longest time we were forced to have a PO Box because being on a dirt road in the country, the systems did not recognize us as a real address . We’d try to fill in and get red boxed. I just about lost my mind trying to get prescriptions by mail. Wouldn’t accept the house address. Would not ship to a post office box.
I mean, I know there are scammers but honestly, there should be an option for putting in your address anyway it’s written.
@CatDragon @futurebird My gran's farm used to have an address that included "rural route" in it and the post office was a large closet in the town's drug store which also featured a lunch counter. It's all been developed now into big houses on little lots.
@futurebird Address checkers are the worst, since they insist on including things like county or region, neither of which are part of our addresses, and they often reformat the street into something that's not used here (we use "Streetname 123", not "Streetname street 123", nor "123 Streetname", which some address checkers insist on).
@futurebird What it comes down to: if you want to deliver to anyone except your friends, especially if you're shipping internationally, the only thing that works within the country level is a freeform multi-line text field.

@RogerBW @futurebird

And yet that may just replace machine-encoded biases with human-habit biases:

https://hcommons.social/@beadsland/114829262094497808

To be clear, in Usia, building numbers appear at the beginning of the line, where unit numbers appear at the end. In Germany, building number appears at the end of the line.

So now you, as a German shipper, prepare a routing label for a Usian address that ends with a unit number. You're given a freeform multi-line text field, but the courier wants specific fields. What ends up in the building number field depends on how cognizant you are of the difference between German and Usian addressing practices.

sport of sacred spherical cows (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] Once had something shipped to me from Germany that got caught in a USPS mail loop because the shipper was confused by my unit number, and used it for the building number on the routing label, insisting all the while that they had reproduced my address exactly as given to them.

hcommons.social
@beadsland @futurebird Personally I think the most sensible order is large to small, as used basically nowhere. Small to large, as used in many places, is not terrible Anything beyond that (including the German "Street Housenumber, Town") is as wilfully perverse as M-D-Y dates.

@RogerBW @futurebird

And yet we inhabit a willful world.

Per OP, best to design systems that account for that.

@RogerBW @beadsland

If anyone asked me how addresses should be written it go a little like this:

Earth, USA, Some City, 12345
1234 Some Street, Apartment Six
Floor Five, Department of Things
Person Name

But... noooooo

@RogerBW @beadsland

Yes you have to write "Earth" every time. It's for perspective.

@futurebird
My house had no number, no street-name until 10 years ago. The *area* has a name, after the main farm in the area. Getting an ambulance was a challenge. Forget about Amazon. Best approach was using numbers from municipal property-register.
@futurebird Some business and academic addresses are the worst. You might need 2-5 lines just for business/division/building name or the university/department/office name. And then you get to the street address. And then there are those places that don't give a street number, just the intersection or the building name.
@futurebird
> American suburban-centric mentality

this finally explains why it's gotten so much worse with the past decade of enshittification, like you'd think it'd just be slower and more convoluted and creepy and stalkery but no we're seeing *major active regressions* with each overhaul
@futurebird (ceterum censeo, see also: support for names that aren't Firstname Middlename Lastname)