Mastodawn

have The Talk with your friends:

no, artificial intelligence isn't real now, nor is it just around the corner
we need laws to prevent capitalists using LLMs to try to circumvent labor laws; we don't need laws to stop "rogue AI" because that's sci-fi bullshit with absolutely no bearing on reality
no, "ai" is not "inevitable" -- the bullshit word extruders that are being positioned as the next big thing right now are snake oil garbage, and not even profitable snake oil garbage, and there's no path to develop them into anything else because that's just how they work
if you hear someone talking about how "ai" is going to change everything, treat them the same way you'd treat a scientologist talking about whatever the fuck scientologists believe in: it is bullshit cult nonsense for marks and rubes
remind them to ponder the question of "cui bono" -- who benefits from the narrative that "ai" is the "next big thing"? the answer: mostly filthy rich american fascists, filthy rich chip manufacturers, filthy rich data center operators, and filthy rich silicon valley entrepreneurs

do your part to counter bullshit fucking propaganda from capitalist scumbags 👍

Edit: this seems to have resonated with a lot of people and I've rejected a lot of nonsense replies or people being contrarian and annoying I don't care if you disagree! Write your own post about it! :')

nLupo

@dumpsterqueer I don't care whether AI is inevitable or not. Capitalism and monopoly is not! Their unethical business model is not equal to AI.

Annelies Kamran, Ph.D.6d ago

Dźwiedziu 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer
Ad 4 Check the latest video from @taylorlorenz; TL;DR: CaaS, Cults as a Service.

@dumpsterqueer i get the feeling that regardless of how totally flawed any 'AI' system is, the industry has enough momentum and sunk cost to drag us all to the bottom. in five years time so many job sectors will be hollowed out by AI "productivity" but every output will be a significant downgrade. Even if an AI is only correct 30% of the time, its still going to supplant real jobs and real accountability and scrutiny.

@Bredroll we'll see

@dumpsterqueer @Bredroll given that capitalism's impulse is to cut costs everywhere they can (including places they really can't) I can't see something with a 70% failure rate being tolerated by profit-seeking businesses for very long. Unfortunately, lots of businesses are floating on endless amounts of VC money (available because we have neglected to tax these mfs), and don't actually have to seek profits.

Bredroll 6d ago

@akamran @dumpsterqueer couple that 70% failure rate with a fully automated system where its virtually impossible to complain if you are on the receiving end, then the glitzy promise of incremental seismic improvements with each new model.

I already know directly of entire teams of public facing admin staff being made redundant by essentially untested Copilot systems.

Add to this the reluctance of decision makers to admit a mistake quickly

tati 6d ago

@akamran @dumpsterqueer @Bredroll idk digital advertising is an example of how profit seeking makes entities vulnerable to long-running mass scams.

Dianora (Diane Bruce)5d ago

@Bredroll @dumpsterqueer I remember the dot com boom. and bust. The bust is coming.

Michael Jenkins 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer Also, while we have your attention: there is no "cloud".

Thank you tobi for writing both bugs and truth.

@MHS_Jenkins pee pee poo poo

Michael Jenkins 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer Well said.

Large Format Projectionist 6d ago

Perhaps we start equating LLMs and MLMs?

@Benhm3 men loving men 🥵

🌈 Kerblambuli 🦄6d ago

@dumpsterqueer tried in my clumsily uttered words, and far too emotional so: the people I've talked to didn't want to believe that their beloved auto complete on steroids could even be a fascist scam, they're buying into it for convenience and having a glimpse into "the future" and that it will "change everything".

It's "Budenzauber": literally the unreal, loud atmosphere through lighting and decorum at parties + other festivities like Christmas markets.

(Edited n times for clarification)

Deb Nam-Krane 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer Sadly, I think we need to add quantum computing to this as well. Someone I love dearly was assuring me that AI + quantum computing, which they said was seven years away, would be a game changer. I just shook my head in disbelief.

Davey 6d ago

@dnkboston @dumpsterqueer just need that nuclear fusion to power it so that it can discover how to do nuclear fusion.

Patrick Morris Miller 6d ago

@davey_cakes @dnkboston @dumpsterqueer Helium-3 mines on the moon! /s

(roll m3tti)5d ago

@davey_cakes @dnkboston @dumpsterqueer at least it allready reinvented arm and 486 according to the groundbreaking chinese llm that designs chips ;)

trainguyrom 6d ago

@dnkboston @dumpsterqueer quantum computing is a really good comparison, since it's an extremely different architecture for computing compared to anything before it, it's really good at very specific tasks and it's really bad at general tasks. From my experiments and understanding both machine learning and quantum computing both have a ton of potential to make certain specific really hard tasks much easier, but ultimately neither will replace workforce or general computing in any meaningful way, but both do have the potential to augment workforces and traditional computing when applied in a sane manner

Deb Nam-Krane 6d ago

@trainguyrom Does quantum computing have a better business case, or rather investment case? Because I thin the AI bubble is going to implode before the people who dropped money into it get anywhere near an ROI or close to realizing the potential of the limited cases where it could be of use. @dumpsterqueer

haaflife 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer I personally find the most important part of The Talk to acknowledge that LLMs can do certain things reasonably well, e.g. translating texts or pictures. That is the number one argument of people caught in the cult ("but I can do ... with it") and stops them from understanding that there is no intelligence involved

refraction

@haaflife @dumpsterqueer important note is that to evaluate whether a machine translation is good, one needs to have a strong understanding of both languages. this eliminates many of the use cases.

haaflife 5d ago

@elexia @dumpsterqueer sorry, disagree, that is not important to the cultists and will not help with convincing them, according to my experiences

Quinze Plush 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer and also: "we cannot put the genie in the bottle, AI is here to stay".

Yes, like cigarettes, asbestos and gambling. That's why we extensively research their harm and legislate to reduce harm.

You S Blues 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer “I’ve been drinking from a firehose of AI for the last two days and it is amazing.”

My boss, who is the CEO, on a team call, yesterday afternoon.

ME: “Come on giant meteor.”

@patmikemid my condolences

➴➴➴Æ🜔Ɲ.Ƈꭚ⍴𝔥єɼ👩🏻‍💻6d ago

I was with you until you said that it's not going to change everything.

Of course it is. It's already been doing that. The "web" as we know it is going to be dead.

AI started being the Next Big Thing a decade ago, and we're still of the upward trajectory of this technology.

Everything else you said it true though.

remind them to ponder the question of "cui bono" -- who benefits from the narrative that "ai" is the "next big thing"?

The problem is that those people think the answer is that they, the users of LLMs, benefit from it the most :(

Lisa Melton 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer This. 💯

Schiffskatze 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer amen 🙏

Troed Sångberg 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer Sure, but what's the source behind your statements?

@troed pee pee wee wee

Troed Sångberg 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer Apparently that was a sensitive topic.

People spouting their gut feelings as "facts" are science deniers. No different from climate science deniers, even if the topic might be "AI" in this case.

Storfoten 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer Why? Afraid that people will start asking uncomfortable questions? Like:

Was there ever a society were there wasn't a wealth culmination at the top 1%?

Navi

@dumpsterqueer this is a great summary of a talk I am yet to hold lmao

Toni Aittoniemi 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer Racing to ”Beat China” in tearing society apart, to a state where nobody knows what is real because of AI God cults and firehose of shit propaganda levels, where people scream for a dictator just to have some sense of security.

That would be a race worth not having, but they’re going full steam ahead regardless.

Pooka🍸Boo 👁🫣🫵6d ago

@dumpsterqueer Agreed!

echo ex machina 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer I'm not exactly a fan of AI at the moment, but if one of my friends sat me down to preach at me about how bad it is and telling me what to think about it, I'd probably cut them loose. Talking to your friends about something important to you is one thing, but having a capital T Talk with them is another. I'd want more mutual respect in my friendships than that.

Kay Ohtie 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer God the mention of 'inevitable' had me realizing that that's been said about several things...and industries crop up in the wake of those every time to profit on undoing it. Biggest that comes to mind is "insourcing" (barf), the industry of domestic callcenter outsourcing that took over in the wake of how cheap companies were getting with overseas call center outsourcing. Like plenty still do but a LOT of companies returned to domestic call centers after in the wake of the negativity.

If anything is inevitable it's an entire industry around undoing the holes companies got themselves into foot-gunning on AI garbage, whether that's through artists to do new art, talent firms hiring developers to replace generative "coders", and probably many more.

Kirinn B.6d ago

@dumpsterqueer Sure, full AI isn't real now, but I wouldn't be so confident that it's not close. At this rate of technical innovation we will reach full AI in time; how much time? Hard to say for sure, but the trajectory is foreboding.

A rogue AI is one of extremely few things that could literally extinct the entire human race. Nearly everything else will leave behind some survivors. It really isn't something to just blithely dismiss as "sci-fi bullshit". Even if you or I don't see how to build a full AI, sooner or later someone will; and if it does go rogue, the impact can be terminal. To be absolutely confident this is impossible is a failure of imagination, or the mark of a genius far beyond the average tech researcher.

Forcing the current breed of LLMs on unhappy users regardless of the human, social, and environmental cost is of course deplorable. At the same time, marketing propaganda for that stuff should not be confused with the actual capabilities and risks of the AI field.

ity [unit X-69]6d ago

@dumpsterqueer tho while countering propaganda plz don't spread other propaganda like we see so much anti-AI or anti-LLM stuff be.

What about jumping neither the love cult or the hate cult lol.

🌸 lily 🏳️‍⚧️

θΔ ⋐ & ∞5d ago

@ity @dumpsterqueer like what

dean36963 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer just finished reading "The AI Con", great read. Was thinking it's a great reference to keep to combat all the pro-AI nonsense anytime it comes up, but also maybe it needs to go to our local book swap (converted old telephone box!), spread the word!

Richard W. Woodley ELBOWS UP 🇨🇦🌹🚴‍♂️📷 🗺️6d ago

Yet people still believe wasting massive amounts of energy and water to do meaningless computer calculations that create nothing creates real wealth.

Echoing Frog 5d ago

@the5thColumnist @dumpsterqueer You just summed up capitalist neo-liberalism here.

alexa kay 🕊️🌿6d ago

Tobi back at it as the voice of queer reason

@lxak queason

I remember when they told us laserdisk was inevitable, that betamax was inevitable, that us all switching to a diet of Blue Green Algae was inevitable.

You'll have to forgive me if I stopped believing that phrase means anything at this point.

�6d ago

@dumpsterqueer putting scientology at the same level as ai is kinda hard

for Scientology

loucovey 6d ago

@dumpsterqueer Just a reminder to all: Approximately $5 trillion in market capitalization was lost during the dot-com bust by the end of the stock market downturn in 2002. This significant loss occurred after the peak of the bubble in March 2000.

Fluffgar 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿6d ago

@dumpsterqueer Is this a pattern? In the 1930s the fascist "elite" were obsessed with similarly fantastical bullshit.

Gray Miller 5d ago

@dumpsterqueer I keep trying to have versions of this conversation with people I know and they just shake their heads and show me a conversation that “proves” ai is really smart.
Le sigh.

Have The Talk with your friends:

- No, mechanical automation isn't real now, nor is it just around the corner.

- We need laws to prevent factory barons using these engines to try to circumvent guild laws and honest labor; we don't need laws to stop "runaway iron golems" because that's penny dreadful BS with absolutely no bearing on reality.

- No, "steam power" is not "inevitable." The noisy, clanking piston contraptions that are being positioned as the next big thing right now are inefficient curiosities, and not even profitable curiosities, and there's no path to develop them into anything else because that's just how they work.

- If you hear someone talking about how "steam" is going to change everything, treat them the same way you'd treat a mesmerist talking about whatever the f**k mesmerists believe in: it is BS cult nonsense for marks and rubes.

- Remind them to ponder the question of "cui bono" -- who benefits from the narrative that "steam" is the "next big thing"? the answer: mostly filthy rich industrial tyrants, filthy rich iron founders, filthy rich colliery operators, and filthy rich London speculators.

Do your part to counter BS propaganda from industrialist scumbags.

nabnux 5d ago

@inti @dumpsterqueer God you're annoying. That's not even remotely comparable

Oyu F'ka 5d ago

@dumpsterqueer I couldn't agree more - it's all about making more money....Google, Microsoft, etc., wouldn't give a fuck for ai if there wasn't 'gold in them thar hills' - all this talk is part of the hype, making ai on your phone/tablet a 'must have'. All just marketing bullshit...👀