Fesshole 🧻Husband is ageing like fine wine, and some of the mum's at school have a whatsapp chat group to gossip about him. I'm not mad about it, but want credit for turning him into a 9. He was a 5, maybe a 6 at best when I married him 12 years ago.
Mx Verda
GJ Groothedde 🇪🇺
C++ Wage Slave@Eetschrijver @MxVerda @fesshole
I don't see the problem. Most women invest a lot of resources in making themselves attractive. In contrast, most men are clueless about what women want and many are barely aware of the need to stay attractive at all once they're married. Why shouldn't a wife let her husband know what she likes? Why shouldn't a man make an effort to make his wife look forward to seeing him? You can bet she does the same for him.
@CppGuy It's the number ratings that weird me out most, I think. As if there's a universal scale of physical (and clothing and gait and --) attractiveness we all met and agreed on.
It's true that we (speaking as AFAB person growing up on US bases, now in UK) don't expect men to put as much effort into their appearances.
Another way to consider that idea is that we don't allow men to express themselves visually without a "good" reason or event.
Clear communication is important! It's also a good sign that he cares about what she says and wants to make her happy
(as long as they're both cool with each person's efforts, plus no one runs themself ragged or does way more than someone else etc).
I'd also like to point out that, while it may be a rhetorical device, you ask quite strong questions.
I generally try not to tell anyone they "should" or "should not" do things, outside of literal safety or some clarifying questions.
@Eetschrijver @fesshole
Atz@atzanteol no, just defaultism / hegemonic uncreative acceptance of "the world isn't shitty enough to me personally so I don't have to care" @Eetschrijver @fesshole
I really don't know what I said to deserve that. I still think men should make an effort to please their wives. I'm surprised that that's controversial.
You have no idea how shitty the world has been to me. I don't talk about it here.
@CppGuy
For my part https://lgbtqia.space/@MxVerda/114728471713896013
But also: defaultism is assuming you are the baseline human person and your experiences are applicable to other people.
Hegemony is that but more academically, afaik. Uncreative means without urge to explore or test things. Acceptance can be affirming or passive.
These all apply to me and (I predict) most people reading this sub-thread.
I'm sorry the world has been shitty to you. And yes, there is a huge problem with femmephobia worldwide. Dudes acting with intent to be kind to women in their lives is kind and reassuring.
That is not the controversial point. (I'm unsure if my messages are getting cut off or something, so I'll thread these replies too.)
Mx Verda (@MxVerda@lgbtqia.space)
@CppGuy@infosec.space It's the number ratings that weird me out most, I think. As if there's a universal scale of physical (and clothing and gait and --) attractiveness we all met and agreed on. It's true that we (speaking as AFAB person growing up on US bases, now in UK) don't expect men to put as much effort into their appearances. Another way to consider that idea is that we don't allow men to express themselves visually without a "good" reason or event. Clear communication is important! It's also a good sign that he cares about what she says and wants to make her happy (as long as they're both cool with each person's efforts, plus no one runs themself ragged or does way more than someone else etc). I'd also like to point out that, while it may be a rhetorical device, you ask quite strong questions. I generally try not to tell anyone they "should" or "should not" do things, outside of literal safety or some clarifying questions. @Eetschrijver@mastodon.social @fesshole@mastodon.social
@CppGuy from https://infosec.space/@CppGuy/114728432058035934 Your message starts with a simple statement that you don't see the problem. Fair enough.
Next, most women do invest in meeting gendered expectations of their appearance, as part of their socially constructed identities. (Whether they should have to or not... ehhhhhhh.)
In contrast, men do not face the same scrutiny nor do they respond as strongly. Men seem to care about their outward expressions (and impact on others) even less once married. (Again, whether marriage "should" change anything is yet another matter.)
Uhhhh this is probably near max length for you lots' servers again. One sec
C++ Wage Slave (@CppGuy@infosec.space)
@Eetschrijver@mastodon.social @MxVerda@lgbtqia.space @fesshole@mastodon.social I don't see the problem. Most women invest a lot of resources in making themselves attractive. In contrast, most men are clueless about what women want and many are barely aware of the need to stay attractive at all once they're married. Why shouldn't a wife let her husband know what she likes? Why shouldn't a man make an effort to make his wife look forward to seeing him? You can bet she does the same for him.
@CppGuy I asked why she describes the dude as a project, not as a separate person with his own ideas.
Q1, "Why shouldn't a wife let her husband know what she likes?
[Q2] Why shouldn't a man make an effort to make his wife look forward to seeing him? You can bet she does the same for him."
Q1: I never said she should avoid communicating her desires.
Q2: I never said he should lapse effort to cheer her up. She likely does, as you asserted earlier in your comment.
Since it's difficult to unpick "pure" intent from circumstance, we can only guess she cares about external judgements of her and her spouse's appearances.
This is not a bad thing (unless taken to excess, causing harm, etc).
@CppGuy All that in mind, all communication is both limited and referential. So my words in written US English (with UK phrases) will *broadly* mean to you what they mean to me, like yours to me and you.
But how we are perceived by others affects our self-image and our understanding of words and visual cues.
(For clarity: men are people with emotions, needs, value, and who deserve comfort, like anyone else. Same for any gender, sex, or other potential groupings.)
That's why I started by defining what I mean by defaultism, hegemony, uncreative, acceptance, and then rephrased what I understand by what you wrote.
(While wondering "Is this account a sock puppet, troll, fascist agitator, AI / LLM, regular bot, language learner, neurodivergent, etc?")
@atzanteol @Eetschrijver @fesshole edit: typo whoops
@CppGuy You're right I have no idea how shitty the world has been to you, nor you me. I can take a guess if you give me demographic information.
If you can understand your own pain (which I see as a positive sign for understanding others, not that I wish unpleasant sensations on you), then I see solid potential for mutual comprehension.
But also from experience, people don't like being infodumped, talked down to / condescended to, overexplained etc.
(I use etc to acknowledge that I am likely to miss out potential explanations becuase my perspective, like others', is limited.)
So. Does any of that explain what you wanted to know? Or does it at least narrow down the parameters for what you wanted to know about my behaviours? (Since I can't speak for anyone else's internal motivations.)
Forgive me, it'll be an hour or so before I can reply. Meanwhile, thanks for a comprehensive response.
Thanks. I think I understand your viewpoint. I get the impression that our positions are much closer than they at first seemed to be.
I'm a human being. I do have alts but they never interact and I never use them as sock puppets. I'm not posting with evil intent. Our paths have crossed several times before; if I were a bad 'un, you'd probably know by now.
😄
I can't find any messages from me to you older than today, but my toots age out after two months. Maybe it's that, or maybe our interactions have been limited to my favouriting or boosting your messages (which would explain why you don't recognise me 😄).
I agree, there's not enough information to determine both spouses' intentions. I read it sightly differently — that he wants to be attractive but didn't know how — but your reading is as plausible as mine.
Thanks for that explanation. (I'll reply to each message in turn, so there's more to come.)
I try not to assume that everyone is like me. Fedi is a good place to learn that lesson! But, I agree, it's a general human tendency.
A word on language: in British English, "Why shouldn't a man do X?" does not mean that a man should do X: it just means there's no prohibition. I'm not stating what a man ought to do, merely stating what he's free to do. That doesn't seem to be the way you've read it, and I wonder whether this is yet another transatlantic difference that I was unaware of.
@CppGuy ah, fair enough. I am autistic and Brits confuse the shit out of me on the regular, even having lived here my entire adult life. @atzanteol @Eetschrijver @fesshole