This felt too valuable not to share. Braille-labeled maps of washrooms to help people find and use facilities in the washroom. Everyone deserves to get in, do their business, wash their hands, and get out in peace and safety.
This seems valuable for all public spaces.
@anne_twain @cargot_robbie not all people who could benefit from such signage are 100% blind. The contrast between the white wall and the black sign with white markings is pretty good, making it easier to find.
(this is also why the dots are in a contrast color, to make them easier to find)
@anne_twain @raboof @cargot_robbie i don't think they meant it that way tbf.
Does make me wonder: what would be the solution to that? (Genuine question)
absolutely wild that you’d speak over multiple blind people *in this thread* and then make a comment like this
maybe shut the fuck up and listen instead
Have a standardised location for the signs, say on the door handle side pillar of the entrance.
@monkeyben @thibaultmol @anne_twain @raboof @cargot_robbie
This was an interesting enough point to type into a search engine, so:
ISO 17049:2013 which stands for Accessible design -- Application of braille on signage, equipment and appliances
and
The Americans with Disabilities Act requires most permanent signs in buildings to have tactile (raised) letters, along with Braille printing
and
AU's National Construction Code - 2022
- S15C2 Location of braille and tactile signs
... all cover the placement of braile signs.
These rules include provisions for making the signs well lit and high enough contrast to be located by those with some vision.
Locating doors themselves is covered under D4D9 Tactile indicators
Ahh, so there already are standards for placement 😊
@EndlessMason @monkeyben @thibaultmol @anne_twain @cargot_robbie very cool, thanks for digging that up!
I also like that the AU code and the ADA can be accessed freely online (https://www.access-board.gov/ada/guides/chapter-7-signs/), unlike ISO
The U.S. Access Board is a federal agency that promotes equality for people with disabilities through leadership in accessible design and the development of accessibility guidelines and standards for the built environment, transportation, communication, medical diagnostic equipment, and information technology.
@raboof
ISO is famously the standards org that says "everybody should obey our standards" but then tells people they can't read the standard doc.
@anne_twain There is no expectation for a single accessibility solution to be suitable for everyone. This is impossible, in fact
93% of people with sight loss have some vision.
Yes a multitude of access solutions need to be available to remove the barriers for everyone.
But accessibility isn't a search for one perfect thing and your line of argument isn't the "gotcha" that you think it is. It's just the same tired old line that often keeps any accessibility improvements from happening at all.
@anne_twain your comment that people are replying to was literally you imagining something the person above you said. they pointed out why the sign was helpful and you came back with “i guess you think the people it’s not helpful for don’t matter”.
like wow, the lack of self-awareness on display here is incredible.
@anne_twain you said, quote:
“And the 100% blind people just dont matter?”
which was neither said nor implied by the comment above yours. you literally just imagined it.
@anne_twain @cargot_robbie @dch depending on the regulatory requirements of the location, certain jurisdictions will have designed a standard by which blind people can expect certain infrastructure elements to occur. no need to "feel around the entire wall", sometimes 🙃
it's mostly about consistency of design, so that the person expects the braille signature sign to exist just above the door latch to the non-opening side, and that this type of bathroom can be identified by a notch or protrusion on the lowest point of the wall where the cane tracks against (when you see blind people casting the cane left and right in front like radar, part of the action involves identifying regularities for inspection).
non-blind people do the same thing, except with our eyes, also constantly scanning the environment, looking for regularities and expectations that we've come to know by way of repetition. to make things better for disabled people it's a process of creating expected, regular, consistent experiences with the environment.
I have ADA bullshit in my life, and a number of opinions on those aspects, FWIW... it fuckin sucks not being able to walk in prior years, and it currently sucks not being able to do all manner of "regular" things, and it sucks having to deal with any and all disability. However, it's very welcome to see where efforts are being made to understand these differences, and to know that there are caring and compassionate people who don't try to politicize differences in ability. 🎁
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