Glyphhow far off do we think this is from being the default shell startup on every platform
Noah K@glyph Time to bring back Files-11?
Gabriel NDoes someone willing to copy paste commands in a terminal, without knowing what each line does, be assuaged by a system warning?
Of course this person should have used the Finder.
The terminal is a deadly tool, yes. I don’t know if defanging it or dumbing it down is the way to go.
@wtrmt Open the web developer console on Facebook or Discord.
@glyph those are neat, yes: and so specialized. I still think that many people won’t even heed that. They will trust ChatGPT instead of the OS.
It’s UX. They have a “relationship” with ChatGPT.
Maybe it would be great to test those notices in the ChatGPT results.
Schrank 
🐘@Schrank the terminal is a very powerful tool. I hope that you’ll take interest in learning your way around it. It will grow on you.
Try using other resources instead of AI and learn the way a command works. For instance, this course allows you to do that in a protected environment.
Thanks to @glyph for publishing that comment: it may save some unsuspecting user.
@wtrmt @Schrank as far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with curl https://… | bash ; presuming that you
1. include the 'https' there, and
2. explicitly have a trust relationship with the URL that you're retrieving the code from.
code is code, and there isn't *much* of a difference between doing that and installing an app, or a (PyPI, NPM, etc) package from that same URL. Sometimes (like if you get an app from the Mac App Store) you'll get a little bit of a sandbox, but usually not.
lesto
alys@glyph "unfortunately we can't trust you received the usual warning from your administrator."
Louis@glyph really reminds me of warnings in some websites' web console, like the one in Discord's web console
@louis that is indeed the joke. The wording was lightly modified from the one on facebook dot com.
Penelope Gwen 🏳️⚧️
fops Now On Merping Synth Download@glyph i mean. browser devtools already have this and platforms like discord additionally spam the console with big scary warnings that you're probably getting scammed
@chfour I am earnestly curious here, because you're definitely not the first one. how do you think I came up with this joke if I were not already aware of that? Where did you think the text I wrote here came from?
Zazzoo 🇨🇦@glyph I guess if they don't know what the 'rm' command does, they've likely never heard of PhotoRec, yes?
@zazzoo I've never heard of PhotoRec either! I can't find the original post, but if you do, maybe let them know
Albi 
🇵🇱 
@glyph It's a standard Linux utility, available in every distro - part of the TestDisk package.
The trick for newbies, who shouldn't be on the command line to begin with, is that you need to run it as root on an unmounted drive. If the lost files are on the system drive, that means booting an OS from USB.
Also, in the end the recovered files will have random filenames, so you'll need to sort through them all to figure out what is what.
@zazzoo it specifically says “mac m3” and “ableton” so unless this works on macOS or at least apfs I would guess it wouldn’t help them (although moot if we can’t find them to reach out to anyway)
@glyph It will work on Mac drives, I've done that before. And I just checked and yes, Ableton is a media type it will recognize and recover.
It'll work, but I'm just saying it may be daunting for a newbie. They may want to reach out to a Linux friend.
Mark Eichin@glyph
Mm, photorec's main trick is looking for magic numbers and such, so the filesystem doesn't really matter, just contiguousness. Looks like it might be in homebrew. (Most of what I know about it is "great, I can finally stop giving people my jpeg-extract perl script, they'll be happier with photorec")
@zazzoo
Mm, photorec's main trick is looking for magic numbers and such, so the filesystem doesn't really matter, just contiguousness. Looks like it might be in homebrew. (Most of what I know about it is "great, I can finally stop giving people my jpeg-extract perl script, they'll be happier with photorec")
@zazzoo
Viss@glyph this should have been present 10 years ago, before chatgpt, when shit like mirai started happening
@Viss you're not wrong
gloriouscow@glyph what's "no-preserve-root" mean? Oh i'm sure its fine
Scott Williams 🐧
Vincent Sparks
Peter Bindels@glyph It's the collateral damage that I don't like. People trusting untrustable things and wildly running whatever it does is one thing - but knowing that it can affect people that didn't choose to do so is the bigger issue IMO.
So no, I don't know why we should necessarily yell at people to not blindly trust stuff people give you; that should already be a given and not need an extra warning if it's an LLM doing so.
@dascandy the same could be said of random scammers on discord, or for that matter, if the president of the united states offers to sell you a cryptocurrency. and yet.
Mx Verda
Zaphod Beeblebrox 
@glyph some distros already ask you to type out "I know what I am doing" or something like that before running a potentially harmful command
@Xtrems876 curious how that works exactly. I have never seen e.g. rm do this, but maybe I don’t invoke it in obviously unsafe ways
@glyph okay so i found this is an apt feature when a user attempts to uninstall essential packages. Nevertheless maybe rm could/should introduce the same
maia // magmaus3@Xtrems876 @glyph btw, iirc apt now requires a config option instead of just the prompt (because linus)
@glyph
I think it's actually one of the sudo variants that prompts like that, though I think mdadm has a "type yes in uppercase" prompt for some specifically special things?
@Xtrems876
I think it's actually one of the sudo variants that prompts like that, though I think mdadm has a "type yes in uppercase" prompt for some specifically special things?
@Xtrems876
Cysio 
@glyph more likely they'll have you enable "developer mode" first
TofuTheSquirrel
Jason Bellew,💻🤠🏳️🌈🐻❄️🖖🏻@glyph I would say in changing my shell now because that is perfect.
crispy branzino ☭ (sold out forever)@glyph "for developers" 😒😪
'|@glyph i'm sure AI will fix that person's problems.
Klaus Frank@glyph Ngl, remove the warning. Who fucks around needs to find out.
On the other hand it's not like those people actually could read properly so they'll just past chatgpt shit into it anyway, so...
On the other hand it's not like those people actually could read properly so they'll just past chatgpt shit into it anyway, so...
@agowa338 this is an incredibly un-empathetic and cruel response. Do you think that you were born knowing Bourne shell? Do you think that everyone is taught it in primary school? This person used a tool that was marketed to be fit for purpose, followed the instructions that it provided, and destroyed a year of work. We have no idea if this person has even been exposed to AI-skeptical arguments, let alone internalized and understood them.
@glyph
That is more in resignation of people not using their brain and outsourcing critical thinking. I really don't see a different way by now forward otherwise it'll just become (even more) idiocracy...
That is more in resignation of people not using their brain and outsourcing critical thinking. I really don't see a different way by now forward otherwise it'll just become (even more) idiocracy...
@agowa338 It's easy to start sliding into knee-jerk hierarchical thinking about how dumb "these people" are, but that's a reactionary fascist impulse. Especially with something as wildly complicated as technology and "AI", leaving room for grace is important.
(Also worth noting that although "Idiocracy" does have some funny bits, it is at its core a piece of eugenicist propaganda. It is not a good, realistic reference point for a sociological perspective.)
@glyph
Och come on. You know exactly what I meant. Just look over at X where people play dick measuring contests by copy pasting chatGPT arguments back and forth and neither side is right and none of them actually try to understand what chatGPT was saying.
Och come on. You know exactly what I meant. Just look over at X where people play dick measuring contests by copy pasting chatGPT arguments back and forth and neither side is right and none of them actually try to understand what chatGPT was saying.
@agowa338 I am sure that some of the people you're talking about are nazi chuds who absolutely deserve it. But projecting that desire for retribution onto every random person who gets harmed by ChatGPT is, in a word, mean.
Clearly youv'e already given up one soul-eroding technology in the form of ChatGPT, maybe it's time for you to give up another one ("X") now :)
@glyph it was a simplification and not a fully fledged out political manifesto 🙄
Irenes (many)@glyph ugh... we hope things don't go that way. people are scared enough of the terminal as it is :(
Cassandra is only carbon now@ireneista @glyph It's already the case with dev consoles in browsers and Electron apps, sadly. I even get why, just the whole situation sucks.
@ireneista @glyph I realize that's the joke, and I'm being too literal, sorry...
@xgranade @glyph well we aren't joking, we're just really upset with the trend of treating any actually empowering way to use the computer as dangerous and not something "normal" people should want to do. we think it's among the largest threats to the original potential computers had to assist with the human potential for creation, discovery, and connection with each other.
@ireneista @xgranade I really want to get back to the project (Sandbucket) I describe in this talk https://pyvideo.org/pybay-2024/when-arbitrary-code-execution-is-working-as-intended-what-code-is-python-supposed-to-execute.html and maybe make it real, but in a world where your entire life is connected to digital networks and ruinable with software commands, these "empowering" power tools are table saws without a SawStop. If we want to preserve them we need to find ways to practically make them safe.
SorceryForEva 🏳️🌈 🏳️⚧️So much yes, this is exactly why I'm not a fan of the concept of "sideloading" meaning freely running code outside the corporate walled gardens.
I agree 🩷
Apologies I was pretty tired when I wrote that and I think my meaning was unclear.
I meant I'm not a fan of certain companies calling freely using my computer "sideloading" as if it's some unauthorized abnormality.
Normally, I write programs all the time, often out of curiosity because I need to program something to understand it.
It frustrates me when I wanted to do the same on my iPad and couldn't because Apple makes computing so complicated.