Welp, I have just cancelled my Microsoft Office 365 recurring subscription.

Two reasons.

1. I only ever use it to check tracked changes to the copy edits on novels—once a year—which my publishers process in Word. As of this month, LibreOffice is good enough for the job (just tested at book length).

2. CoPilot in Office would open me up to accusations of breach of contract—my book contracts warrant that they're all my own work: CoPilot brings that into question.

So good riddance to Office365!

A third reason for ditching Office365 is that I have had a hate on for Microsoft's monopolistic business practices since the early 1990s AND a fourth is that Office is enshittifying rapidly—autosave only works to OneDrive shares now, not local storage, for example—and why am I paying for shit I don't want to use anyway?

Now the alternative is confirmed good enough, I'm out.

@cstross I wonder is law firms are gearing up for lawsuits around copilot or similar tools.

@timo21 @cstross

The major security issues of the newest enshittified version of Microsoft Office 365 were quite enough.

It contains unwanted intrusive features like reduced feature online versions, Recall on an unsecured database, and spyware-by-another-name applications like Copilot & Teams.

Fewer applications (Publisher & Access no longer included)

Requires the uninstallation of other Microsift 32 bit applications (Visio & Project) in order to install the 64 bit versions.

Enough.

@cstross I can't recommend LibreOffice enough! It's intuitive, reliable, feature-rich and stable. Plus you can import or export in pretty much any document format in existence.

I have had compatibility issues in the past - a job application form which didn't work in LibreOffice because all the input fields were broken, for some inscrutable reason - but it's a rare enough occurrence to not be worth worrying about.

@ApostateEnglishman @cstross is the LibreOffice Excel replacement able to work with complex programming done in Excel?
@Fabis_flying_fotos @cstross I haven't (yet) had any need to use it for that purpose, so can't answer that question, sorry.
@ApostateEnglishman @Fabis_flying_fotos @cstross Depends on your definition of complex excel programming. It does support formulas, built in functions, and macros (in multiple languages) which you can use to build your own functions as well, but doesn't support the cool new functions excel has added like LAMBDA and MAP/REDUCE.
@Shivaekul @ApostateEnglishman @cstross
So the macros programmed will work? 🤔 I’ll need to have a look at that. Thank you :)
@Fabis_flying_fotos @ApostateEnglishman @cstross Possibly, Libre office uses LibreOffice Basic rather than Visual Basic for Applications (VBA), but there is some support for using VBA code using "Option VBASupport 1", you may also have to make adjustments or rewrite sections. And then I know it supports python and js, but not sure about if the code is fully portable or requires any adjustment. Macros are not my speciality unfortunately so I don't have all the details.
@Shivaekul @Fabis_flying_fotos @ApostateEnglishman I'm not a proficient spreadsheet user (basic macros is all) and have less than no interest in Basic programming. If I need to do numerical shite I'll use a real programming environment, thank you very much (spoiler: this never happens, because I don't need to do that stuff).
@Fabis_flying_fotos @ApostateEnglishman @cstross I'll worry about the complex programming in excel when they fix dates when reading csv files :-p

@Fabis_flying_fotos you got a totally different category of problem when you got large applications in excel.

@ApostateEnglishman @cstross

@ApostateEnglishman I have been using StarOffice/OpenOffice/LibreOffice since roughly 1995 and earlier iterations were SPECTACULARLY rough around the edges in some respects. But for the past couple of years LibreOffice has been increasingly solid.
@cstross @ApostateEnglishman I wish they would fix the horribly broken EPUB export though.
Word in EPUB online konvertieren | ONLYOFFICE Blog

Ab Version 6.3 können Sie in ONLYOFFICE Docs EPUB-Dateien speichern! Erfahren Sie, wie man DOC-, DOCX-, RTF- und ODT-Dateien in EPUB mit ONLYOFFICE konvertiert.

ONLYOFFICE Blog
@Luettdeern @zakalwe @ApostateEnglishman I have VERY LITTLE use for Office software—just the once a year job! In contrast, I write books for a living, and I use @scrivenerapp because even though it's not open source it's the best tool out there, bar none, for what I do.
@zakalwe @cstross @ApostateEnglishman There's a PublishAs XHTML extension that has an epub mode. Still not great: I run the results through Sigil before pubbing to kindle or D2D, but it's better than the native epub export.
@elysegrasso @cstross @ApostateEnglishman The workflow I'm experimenting with right now is save as DOCX, convert to EPUB3 using Pandoc, then hand-write my own CSS.

(The DOCX step is because pandoc's ODT reader module is currently badly broken.)

@cstross Nothing like a rapidly expanding userbase to force devs to listen to negative feedback!

It seems to be a pattern with FOSS: if only 500 people are stubbornly using it despite its quirks, no improvement will happen. It's an exclusive little club.

But 5,000? 5 million? A growing dev team constantly bringing in fresh ideas, perspectives and skills? Now we're talking!

@ApostateEnglishman @cstross

I suspect LibreOffice has also benefited from funding from various EU governments who are quite angry at the US tech industry.

@ApostateEnglishman @cstross and in those 5000 or 5 millions there are some developers.
@cstross I'm a Johnny come lately. Only switched to Linux in mid 1998. Started my own business 1/1/1998 and by August combination of being fed up with needing to re-install Windows NT every few weeks and my first employee who was straight out of uni and had come across Linux there.
So we had our server and both development workstations on Debian (after a short side track with RedHat).
@ApostateEnglishman
@ApostateEnglishman @cstross input fields are probably the only annoying thing about writer but otherwise I agree, it's great. What still is lagging behind a lot IMO is Impress, which is nowhere near the usability of PowerPoint. That said, Quarto or LaTeX/Beamer are way superior to both
@cstross I've just read Thurrotts book and reminded myself what an absolutely awful company it was, is and always has been. https://leanpub.com/windowseverywhere
Of course the tone of the book is mainly "haha you'll never guess what they did next" rather than an eviscerating precis. 🙄
Windows Everywhere

You can’t truly understand any software platform or how that platform evolved over time unless you understand how to create software for it.

Leanpub

@ivor @cstross

Wow. Just scanning the table of contents of that book brought back memories

@cstross OMG, I lost work recently bc i didn’t know that autosave being on meant NOTHING. Obviously the proprietary and confidential document belongs on our server, not the effing OneDrive.

And they want me to do my email in a flipping browser, like it’s 1995?! And don’t get me started on the batch of lame excuses that passes for “Teams”.

They’re just lying to us about their crappy products now. I have zero belief that they have actual engineers making decisions anymore. 🤬

@heartofcoyote @cstross
Rather than skilled and knowledgeable engineers at Micro$haft, it's now just marketing majors and MBAs all the way down, Ma'am.
@heartofcoyote @cstross Hint: that document that you think didn't autosave – it's probably on your OneDrive (yes, really, Office will just silently copy the file there, leaving the half-done copy where you originally had it).
@jernej__s @cstross Wow. SMH. So we should just turn that off. Thanks!
@heartofcoyote (not so) Fun Fact: Microsoft Teams uses some sort of email thing in the background for messages and it's tied into SharePoint. It's what Microsoft originally wanted Outlook to be, but Outlook Express and stuff was as "good" as they could do it back then.
@cstross great news that Libre Office is now good enough for your needs.
Well done to the team developing it.
Well done you for ditching Office.

@cstross

I'm testing LO for highly formatted tech ebooks, and rocketing towards that same decision at ~.7C.

@mwl @cstross we need a forum or something to help people move piece by peice away from corpo crap and towards freedom. Start with apps and then OSes and then hardware

@fluffykittycat @mwl @cstross

privacyguides.org can be a good resource for avoiding surveillance capitalism.

@fluffykittycat @mwl @cstross A bunch of us have been discussing this for quite a while - check out #DeEvilYourLife 
@mwl @cstross
Not sure it's that much relevant, but LaTeX support in the LibreOffice helped me to go through the uni years as an applied mathematics student without ever touching MS Word and MathType or equivalents. 20 years ago already.
So, I highly recommend grasping it for whatever challenge of writing and editing you have. Maybe it'd be even easier to use than you think.

@gemelen @cstross Sadly, LaTeX will not work. Been there, done that.

https://mwl.io/faq#tools

Frequently Asked Questions – Michael W Lucas

@mwl @gemelen @cstross "And you know what makes it worse, is some random dude (because it’s always a man, always) on the Internet telling me I’m wrong."

Lol. So sad. So true.

And even with openBSD & for ed for your editor...

@gemelen @mwl I have zero use for equation writing and LaTeX is absolutely horrible for everything else.

@cstross @gemelen

I could, in theory, benefit from LaTex for super-highly-formatted tech books.

But some POD printers don't work with the PDFs produced.

Which POD printers? No freaking clue. IngramSpark provides zero feedback or debugging. They just pull my book from distribution globally until I "fix the problem."

A book that was fine for years can get its first order in Malaysia, or Guam, and boom! Firmware that hasn't been updated since Clinton was president shuts me down worldwide. (Yes, B&N experimented with POD in the 90s and those machines are still in use. Fourth-hand.)

If it happens too often, Ingram will drop me entirely.

Not worth it.

@mwl Does Bookvault work with old PDFs? I tend to find them pretty good, but I know not everyone does. Happy to take a look at your file to see if I spot anything. (Not a tech expert but I have worked a bit on pre-press stuff.)

@cstross @gemelen

@jackyan @cstross @gemelen

You need to use the 2001 or 2003 PDF standards, so yes.

@mwl Just to clarify, was this answering my Bookvault question (in which case, thank you) or yes to me taking a look at the file (still happy to)?
@cstross
I strongly disagree, but would suggest using Markdown, e.g. Pandoc. That should be good enough for your novels.
@gemelen @mwl
@oneiros @gemelen @mwl Markdown is, oddly, what I use for casual writing: it's not what the publishing industry runs on, though, and I need to feed into other organizations' workflow.
@cstross @oneiros @gemelen @mwl I attended a talk by @pluralistic over a decade ago where he recounted introducing his publisher to the wonders of version control systems.
@cstross @gemelen @mwl Scribus looks nice as a "proper" book formatting product. I have had a need to use it for real (LyX and Latex got me through a thesis), but tinkering showed promise. https://www.scribus.net/
(Multi platform OSS)
Scribus – Open Source Desktop Publishing

@ingram @cstross @gemelen @mwl
Currently using Scribus to publish our local community magazine. Around 40 pages once a month. Output to PDF seems acceptable to my local print shop so far 👍 I can get an edition ready in about 2 days. It has python scripting which really helps with automating the ad placement. But we are off topic slightly here..

(Scribus is a page layout tool; more a replacement for Adobe InDesign than a word processing tool.)

Frequently Asked Questions – Michael W Lucas

@cstross @gemelen @mwl Just out of curiosity, how is LaTeX horrible for everything else but writing equations? I have never used LaTeX to write a book, only some lab manuals and currently my PhD thesis.
@kungfyurii @gemelen @mwl Massive cognitive overload of learning any embedded-command typesetting language. (And yes, I used to work with troff for a living.) I do not need that: in fact, Markdown is overkill in complexity terms for writing a novel.
@cstross @gemelen @mwl Ah, I see, I can totally understand and agree with that. Thank you for the explanation!

@cstross @gemelen @mwl I am sorry to have to mention Asciidoc as it is imho the ‘exactly right’ middle ground between markdown (as it does have a formal syntax) and Latex (because it is actually easy to write and read back)

Cheers!

https://asciidoc.org/
https://docs.asciidoctor.org/asciidoc/latest/syntax-quick-reference/
https://docs.asciidoctor.org/asciidoctor/latest/tooling/

AsciiDoc

AsciiDoc is a human-readable, text editor-friendly document format evolved from plain text markup conventions and semantically analogous to XML schemas like DocBook.

asciidoc.org
@gemelen @mwl @cstross if the editor does it in word, it's the editor you need to convince.

@ignaziop1977 @gemelen @cstross

An author's ability to produce LaTeX is not the problem. https://mwl.io/faq#tools

Frequently Asked Questions – Michael W Lucas

@gemelen @mwl @cstross I use LyX most of the time, that's at an interesting intersection — text only with out-of-band markup like an office suite, but layout is done with LaTeX, and they will not predict hyphenation, line or page breaks and instead fit the text into the window.

Super useful because you can use a font size and window width that is convenient, there's no horizontal scrolling and it has no effect on the output.