Charlie StrossMay 19

FIGHT!

Who wins, one-on-one:

(EDIT: it's in a space opera, the unicorns are GM horses, the raptors are modified birds. Boring, I know: no magic, no rainbows! But also starships and robots …)

Unicorns
40.5%
Utahraptor (like a big velociraptor)
59.5%
Poll ended at .
Show threadIrenes (many)May 19
@cstross we voted unicorns because it feels like the body design of utahraptors makes more sense for group hunting
Show threadPhilippa CowderoyMay 19
@ireneista @cstross gotta admit I'm thinking "what if the unicorn misses?" there, though - neither's looking great, but the utahraptor actually benefits from staying side-to-side
Show threadPhilippa CowderoyMay 19
@ireneista @cstross ...the unicorn's going to be plain bigger, mind
Show threadPhilippa CowderoyMay 19

@ireneista @cstross I reckon it comes down to whether the raptor can place its forearms/wings in a way that stops the unicorn picking up speed to get away and come back for another pass: if it can in principle, you've got a messy opening stage but things get determined pretty quickly once the unicorn's caught.

If not, how fast can the utahraptor step to the side and turn inwards?...

Show threadIrenes (many)May 19
@flippac @cstross you also have to remember, utahraptors are built for speed, for sure, but the unicorn's eyes and visual cortex reflect over a hundred million years of evolutionary improvement that the utahraptor doesn't benefit from. seriously, dino eyes have a ton of problems. if it turns into an extended battle, that could prove critical.
Show threadPhilippa CowderoyMay 19
@ireneista @cstross If it turns into an extended jousting contest, absolutely - I'm not sure grappling necessarily got better rather than more specialised though, and if the contest is "spike the raptor enough" vs "grab hind leg" then it doesn't help the unicorn that the offensive and defensive motions are mostly the same thing: scratching up the raptor's flank isn't so easy if the raptor's already hauling it for a grab
Show threadCharlie StrossMay 19

@flippac @ireneista Okay, so let me mix it up a bit:

The unicorn is harnessed to a light two-wheeled carriage (like a curricle or a gig), made with modern materials. Two humans on board, one driver, one passenger. (They may be armed.)

The raptor is trained for riding and is saddled up: it may be gagged (but beware those raptorial claws!). One rider, also armed.

Weapons are most likely black-powder pistols.

Anyway: both animals are constrained! And black powder weapons won't help much.

Show threadPhilippa CowderoyMay 19
@cstross @ireneista How far out do the humans see each other, how much do they trust their steeds' training and how daft are they?
Show threadIrenes (many)May 19
@flippac @cstross all interesting fights start with human folly, so let's assume the humans don't think to take aim until the animals are charging
Show threadPhilippa CowderoyMay 19
@ireneista @cstross do the animals actually have cause to charge until the humans open fire?
Show threadCharlie StrossMay 19
@flippac @ireneista Yes: it's a chase, humans in unicorn-carriage are fleeing, rider on raptor is trying to arrest (not kill) them.
Show threadPhilippa CowderoyMay 19
@cstross @ireneista Assuming the unicorn has the bad attitude, it fake-bolts, the carriage gets the shit knocked out of it briefly then the real fight begins with the unicorn far enough to give it an advantage as it turns around?
Show threadPhilippa CowderoyMay 19
@cstross @ireneista (actual chase-into-fight is boring at best and while the unicorn's tied to that carriage it's either capable of outrunning the raptor or not: if not, it's raptor food because the raptor is in control of the approach whatever happens to the rider - we might get "raptor wins, unicorn's people win against rider, raptor decides unicorn is enough dinner" for example)
Show threadIrenes (many)May 19
@flippac @cstross you're right, the raptor would try to pass and run alongside - jumping over the carriage is too finicky a move and there's no way to line it up properly. so it'd go for the flank. with its feet, per the other discussion. this probably gives it the first strike, so it probably wins.
Show threadPhilippa CowderoyMay 19
@ireneista @cstross I think we see a ramming motion aimed at the hips first, kicking while running in a different direction is not easy and rolling under a horse/unicorn in motion still risks getting stamped on
Show threadIrenes (many)May 19
@flippac @cstross oh great point, yeah. well the unicorn can't kick sideways, so it's a free hit for the raptor. ramming has a chance to break the unicorn's legs, in which case the fight is over since it's still "attached" to the carriage, but if it doesn't hit hard enough to do that, the unicorn's next move is to break free and... yes, bolt and come back, like you said.
Show threadIrenes (many)May 19

@flippac @cstross so the unicorn gets the second hit, and the horn charge is decisive if it lands, and from that point both animals are free and it's the scenario we already discussed

of course, the humans will be maneuvering during all this, but they're probably going to keep each other busy and not achieve much in the animal fight

Show threadPhilippa CowderoyMay 19
@ireneista @cstross The raptor probably responds fast enough to attempt something while the unicorn's picking up pace outgoing FWIW, but it's probably only one "good" shot
Show threadPhilippa Cowderoy

@ireneista @cstross That said, if the raptor's good at this stuff options include a second shot at the legs and any kick we can work out the mechanics for

(a spinning back kick might actually be doable without the rider, and at the correct angle is going to give the unicorn a hard time on a torso hit: this is strictly on the basis that the raptor is expecting to be outrun from a moderate start and the kick is less dangerous than if they were full pace)

May 19 at 8:54pmWeb