@heidilifeldman
Biden's initial 2nd term candidacy and Harris' subsequent mangled candidacy speak to serious problems in the Democratic Party. As does their attitude toward materially supporting Israel's genocide of Palestinians, despite massive disapproval from voters.

Being funded by corporations has caused the Democratic Party to see actual voters as merely something to be managed and manipulated, rather than respected and ultimately obeyed. And I've seen zero indications of change regarding those attitudes, but rather accusations of racism and misogyny against democrats who opted out of voting, and more pandering to the extreme right in the name of centrism.

The Democratic Party (and our American democracy) is in dire need of improvement and reform, but is currently led by people who would personally be financially and professionally harmed by reform. They need to be replaced via election primaries, and it's highly relevant to discuss the examples which demonstrate that need.

@me_valentijn @heidilifeldman It seems to me you’ve missed the point of this thread a bit.

Playing the blame game with Democrats is self-defeating. Money in politics is impossible to change in the short term. What CAN be done is voting against the GOP, in every single election.

And a corollary: If one wants the Democratic Party to align more with one’s values, one must vote. Because any politician is going to listen more to those who voted than those who didn’t vote at all.

It was malicious actors who convinced people that Harris was responsible for the situation in Israel, and told them the response was to not vote. Such behavior benefitted Trump and Netanyahu. We CANNOT allow such influence campaigns to work again.

@mls14 @heidilifeldman
I'm confused. How are democrats opposed to genocide supposed to vote for democrats over republicans in a manner which sends a signal of strong rejection of supporting genocide?

The choices were literally genocide materially supported by one party or genocide materially supported by the other party. Very vocal objections were systematically ignored by the Democratic Party and are still being downplayed and vilified to this day.

Thus simply voting democrat is not enough. We need to get the right democrats into power who explicitly reject the support of genocide and will engage in systemic democratic reforms. Otherwise we keep circling back to the same situation over and over again: neither party needs to represent voters' interests as long as they feel confident enough that we'll think they're not-as-bad-as the other party.

@me_valentijn @heidilifeldman Voting Democrat is not enough, but it is necessary, even if you don’t like the Democrat of the month.

And if you believe that Harris was pro-genocide, you were affected by the targeted disinformation meant to suppress your vote. Trump is going to literally remove every single Palestinian from Gaza. Do you REALLY believe Harris would do the same? We all know the answer to that.

@mls14 @heidilifeldman
The Biden administration supplied Israel with everything it needed to bomb Gaza into oblivion. Massive amounts of civilians were being killed even prior to the election, and documents repeatedly demonstrated that American bombs kept being sent even when the Biden administration was (publicly) scolding Bibi for his weekly episode of Definitely Going Too Far This Time. Harris refused to denounce any of that or give any indication that she would deviate from the Democratic Party in supporting Israel unconditionally.

And while Trump was always going to be far worse, there were also always going to be democrats who couldn't bring themselves to vote for the not-as-bad party while it was providing that support for genocide. It's human nature, not logic, and abusing people for it is perverse and not constructive.

@me_valentijn @mls14 @heidilifeldman

whiny assholes who used the genocide in gaza to not vote harris

1. condemned palestinians to worse with trump

2. don't give a shit about other important issues (trans rights, women's rights, etc)

3. if the usa ceased all military cooperation with israel (we should) israel will keep going

4. are entitled. bellyache about one issue (self-destructively on that issue!) and they think all the other trump bs won't touch them

manipulated morons, just like MAGA

@punissuer

If the other option is worse, and one is intelligent enough to see it is only one or the other, then one should aim for harm reduction

This is cold calculation, it's not exciting. The problem. Because people are emotional

But if one doesn't vote leading to worse for Palestinians, as is now occurring, then one's actions are self-destructive on one's own stated concern

The manipulation of the stupid with emotional thrall, hurting oneself: nonvoters are herded morons just like MAGA

@benroyce
@punissuer I have heard so many people say they didn't vote for Harris because they refused to support a candidate that supported the genocide.

But, they did anyway. They supported Trump. They may not have voted for Trump, but not voting for Harris did nearly as much harm.

The worst part is that they know this. Anyone who claims otherwise is fucking lying. They are lying to us, and to themselves, and the latter makes it damned fucking hard to talk any sense into them.

@minego @benroyce @punissuer

I don't think this is the right approach. Like, I don't think you should blame people for not voting for a genocide enthusiast. You should blame the party for keeping genocide as a political promise, instead of making an explicit promise to *stop* it.

Like, I hope this is not mean, but this position sounds like "imperialism and genocide will happen either way, so you should choose the option that maintains our local infrastructure in place"... can you really blame people for not wanting to participate in that position?

@ruakueqche
@benroyce @punissuer Wow.

I hope this is mean, because I intend it to be. Yes, I can blame people for causing harm. Yes, genocide is happening either way, and yes that is horrific and needs to be stopped. Other harms exist as well though, and ignoring that and then claiming you are doing good is a fucking lie.

Harris was wrong to support Israel, and if she had been elected we would have continued

the fight against that.

Throwing everyone else into the line of fire while doing NOTHING to help Gaza is NOT the fucking moral high ground you think it is.

@ruakueqche @benroyce @punissuer

@minego @benroyce @punissuer

I agree that abstaining is not a moral high ground. And I agree that voting for Harris was the better choice.

My main point is that "not voting" in the US election was less a planned, calculated decision and more a... deflation, a loss of will. You give in because things keep getting worse, and you believe that the democrats are just the ratchet that stops progress before the republicans make everything worse. In the elections of my country, I voted for a hopeless candidate because all the others were the same kind of shit. Like, the same kind of neoliberal fascist. That election in the US was special, it was about starting fascism now or postponing it 4 more years. Those who did not see that did not see reality.

My argument is that apathy is not a *rational* response, but it is a *reasonable* response. And I'd rather save my anger for those who are actively doing harm and have the most power to do something else, and not those so disenfranchised that their only exercise of power is voting once every 1.5 years in various elections

@ruakueqche @minego @punissuer

this is the part where you realize that that apathy is actively cultivated as certainly as MAGA is cultivated

that those who are apathetic enough not to vote are being manipulated into that by appealing to their entitlement and alienation as certainly as MAGA is appealed to with fear and hate

that this appeal to human weaknesses is by design

and that therefore there is nothing admirable nor superior in not voting

just the same ignorant victimhood as MAGA