Heidi Li FeldmanI’m exasperated by any energy spent now on Biden’s cognitive health in the final years of his term. It was obvious he should not have sought a second term; should have to stuck to his promise to serve one term. Had he, the Democratic presidential nominee might or might not have won in 2024. Impossible to know. Also, irrelevant. 1/
Assuming - and it isn’t a safe assumption at all - the U.S. has a non-sham presidential election in 2028, nothing about Biden’s handling of a bid for a second term matters. Nothing about the unapproachability of Biden or his family matters. 2/
Maybe the Biden case demonstrates the problem of nominating somebody sufficiently old to be at risk of cognitive and physical decline. So we should try to avoid having nominees in their late 70s and older - for many reasons, including health issues. 3/
But, time debating how Biden could or should have been convinced not to stand for
reelection is time wasted when we have none to spare. There is a fascist in the WH, Congress is controlled by a fascist cult of personality. 4/
reelection is time wasted when we have none to spare. There is a fascist in the WH, Congress is controlled by a fascist cult of personality. 4/
Pundits, commentators, electeds, Democratic Party poobahs, and every last citizen should
be doing everything possible to impede, oppose, and focus attention on Republican Fascism, at state and federal levels. All should be figuring out how we are going to make sure we have non-sham elections in 2026 and 2028. 5/
be doing everything possible to impede, oppose, and focus attention on Republican Fascism, at state and federal levels. All should be figuring out how we are going to make sure we have non-sham elections in 2026 and 2028. 5/
Biden is the past. The present and the future are fraught with problems that have nothing to do with him. 6/6
me_valentijn@heidilifeldman
Biden's initial 2nd term candidacy and Harris' subsequent mangled candidacy speak to serious problems in the Democratic Party. As does their attitude toward materially supporting Israel's genocide of Palestinians, despite massive disapproval from voters.
Being funded by corporations has caused the Democratic Party to see actual voters as merely something to be managed and manipulated, rather than respected and ultimately obeyed. And I've seen zero indications of change regarding those attitudes, but rather accusations of racism and misogyny against democrats who opted out of voting, and more pandering to the extreme right in the name of centrism.
The Democratic Party (and our American democracy) is in dire need of improvement and reform, but is currently led by people who would personally be financially and professionally harmed by reform. They need to be replaced via election primaries, and it's highly relevant to discuss the examples which demonstrate that need.
SouprMatt@me_valentijn @heidilifeldman It seems to me you’ve missed the point of this thread a bit.
Playing the blame game with Democrats is self-defeating. Money in politics is impossible to change in the short term. What CAN be done is voting against the GOP, in every single election.
And a corollary: If one wants the Democratic Party to align more with one’s values, one must vote. Because any politician is going to listen more to those who voted than those who didn’t vote at all.
It was malicious actors who convinced people that Harris was responsible for the situation in Israel, and told them the response was to not vote. Such behavior benefitted Trump and Netanyahu. We CANNOT allow such influence campaigns to work again.
@mls14 @heidilifeldman
I'm confused. How are democrats opposed to genocide supposed to vote for democrats over republicans in a manner which sends a signal of strong rejection of supporting genocide?
The choices were literally genocide materially supported by one party or genocide materially supported by the other party. Very vocal objections were systematically ignored by the Democratic Party and are still being downplayed and vilified to this day.
Thus simply voting democrat is not enough. We need to get the right democrats into power who explicitly reject the support of genocide and will engage in systemic democratic reforms. Otherwise we keep circling back to the same situation over and over again: neither party needs to represent voters' interests as long as they feel confident enough that we'll think they're not-as-bad-as the other party.
@me_valentijn @heidilifeldman Voting Democrat is not enough, but it is necessary, even if you don’t like the Democrat of the month.
And if you believe that Harris was pro-genocide, you were affected by the targeted disinformation meant to suppress your vote. Trump is going to literally remove every single Palestinian from Gaza. Do you REALLY believe Harris would do the same? We all know the answer to that.
@mls14 @heidilifeldman
The Biden administration supplied Israel with everything it needed to bomb Gaza into oblivion. Massive amounts of civilians were being killed even prior to the election, and documents repeatedly demonstrated that American bombs kept being sent even when the Biden administration was (publicly) scolding Bibi for his weekly episode of Definitely Going Too Far This Time. Harris refused to denounce any of that or give any indication that she would deviate from the Democratic Party in supporting Israel unconditionally.
And while Trump was always going to be far worse, there were also always going to be democrats who couldn't bring themselves to vote for the not-as-bad party while it was providing that support for genocide. It's human nature, not logic, and abusing people for it is perverse and not constructive.
Ben Royce 🇺🇦@me_valentijn @mls14 @heidilifeldman
whiny assholes who used the genocide in gaza to not vote harris
1. condemned palestinians to worse with trump
2. don't give a shit about other important issues (trans rights, women's rights, etc)
3. if the usa ceased all military cooperation with israel (we should) israel will keep going
4. are entitled. bellyache about one issue (self-destructively on that issue!) and they think all the other trump bs won't touch them
manipulated morons, just like MAGA
punIssuerIf the other option is worse, and one is intelligent enough to see it is only one or the other, then one should aim for harm reduction
This is cold calculation, it's not exciting. The problem. Because people are emotional
But if one doesn't vote leading to worse for Palestinians, as is now occurring, then one's actions are self-destructive on one's own stated concern
The manipulation of the stupid with emotional thrall, hurting oneself: nonvoters are herded morons just like MAGA
@benroyce If you only have two options and one is straight up fascism, then I'm sorry, but that isn't a democracy anymore and you can probably stop trying to defend it as such…
okanogen VerminEnemyFromWithin@punissuer
Dumbest thing I have ever read.
Dumbest thing I have ever read.
@punissuer@universeodon.com
"I guess if I have to vote against fascism it isn't a country worth saving! Durrrr."
"I guess if I have to vote against fascism it isn't a country worth saving! Durrrr."
🌼 Dagnabbit, Pascaline! 🌼"I can choose better or worse but I choose nothing because I'm an entitled toxic idealist helping to get us fascism"
Fixed it for you
You don't care about making the world better. You care about masturbating your ego. You want perfect, now, because you're an immature idiot, and you're too stupid to see how your nonvote *helps* get us fascism
Please stop following me
@benroyce I can make these remarks from my ivory tower of being an Austrian citizen. But go ahead calling people names who got forcefully removed from peaceful protests for not voting for the people who said "order" (whatever that means) was more important than their right to express their opinion, or even their safety
unread
uninterested
i asked you stop following me
did you do it? there's a delay in the ui
that's all i care about with you and morons who "think" like you
@benroyce sorry, I didn't understand "please unfollow me" as "please stop talking to me immediately".
Bye
Bye
🖕
moron
one hopes you have enough brain cells to realize one day the part your stupidity played in bringing about our demise
Micah@benroyce
@punissuer I have heard so many people say they didn't vote for Harris because they refused to support a candidate that supported the genocide.
But, they did anyway. They supported Trump. They may not have voted for Trump, but not voting for Harris did nearly as much harm.
The worst part is that they know this. Anyone who claims otherwise is fucking lying. They are lying to us, and to themselves, and the latter makes it damned fucking hard to talk any sense into them.
RuakueqcheI don't think this is the right approach. Like, I don't think you should blame people for not voting for a genocide enthusiast. You should blame the party for keeping genocide as a political promise, instead of making an explicit promise to *stop* it.
Like, I hope this is not mean, but this position sounds like "imperialism and genocide will happen either way, so you should choose the option that maintains our local infrastructure in place"... can you really blame people for not wanting to participate in that position?
@ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
i'm not a politician, i'm a hothead and a loudmouth rando
i don't give a fuck about the "right approach"
my approach is: "fuck your feelings, *think*"
we should choose the path of harm reduction. and then iterate to better
that is the only way
geniuses going "i want perfect now" and then not voting helps give us fascism and worse genocide and worse imperialism
if somebody can't realize that, they are a moron, and are sabotaging their own concerns
@benroyce @minego @punissuer I agree we should do the path of harm reduction. I also agree that harris was the better candidate. But I question where the blame should be placed.
I blame democrats for not having an anti genocide stance. If the issue of the genocide was important enough that they might loose the elections over it to a fascist, they should have campaigned against the genocide.
People who abstained from voting gave up on the system. Given the choices, that some people, even an important number of people, would give up was inevitable. I can't be angry at someone who despairs so hard they give up.
But I can be angry at those who, having the power to give up on the genocide, did not care at all, and after they lost to the fascist, they decided to collaborate with him.
Absteiners are not the same as MAGA, and the Democratic leadership deserves much more hate than the people who did not vote at all.
Political leaders are the ones with power, they gave the choices. They should face criticism for the choices they gave
@ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
yes the democrats need better, further left, candidates
everyone with 2 brain cells realizes that
the democrats suck, everyone knows that
so how do we get better candidates?
the point:
show up in the midterms
show up in the primaries
*that* is when we get better candidates
so if some nonvoter shithead can't be bothered to do that because they're playing video games:
fuck them
they are to blame
so yes:
fuck the democrats
*and* fuck lazy moron nonvoters
PoloniousmonkY'know, it wasn't until this time around I voted for a president. Biden had to show he could get it done before I trusted the Dems. plus, the alternative was so awful.
I was generally pretty good about voting downballot. Straight dem unless there was a green or somebody who might've had a chance.
@ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
i really dislike this endless blameshifting away from nonvoters
they falsely believe they are taking some sort of high road when by their choice to not vote they are actively driving us to fascism
they *are* as bad as MAGA
we have to vote
always
iterate to better from various grades of terrible choices
*that is the only way*
sitting there, doing nothing but casting lazy easy judgment because magic perfect doesn't exist is not admirable
it's fucking stupid
GJ Groothedde 🇪🇺@benroyce
Fuck all that "Genocide Joe" folk. Fuck them HARD. I have zero patience for these righteous Trump enablers.
@ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
Fuck all that "Genocide Joe" folk. Fuck them HARD. I have zero patience for these righteous Trump enablers.
@ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
⁂iwein⁂@benroyce
All that said, there are way better forms of collaboration/governance than majority voting.
Let's implement them, and until then, vote for harm reduction 🙂
@iwein @ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
we can easily imagine better systems than our fucking stupid FPTP
the thing is, we won't ever get them until we vote in the people that can deliver it to us
so those who go "the system sucks" and detach are only helping to ensure we live in FPTP voting hell forever
while those working the system to better, and iterating, are the ones who will gives us a better system
and all the while they are weathering the lazy entitled assholes calling them names
Kneworldodor@benroyce @iwein @ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
Corporatists, especially fascists, are using advertising science which does not assume humans are self aware and logical.
Masses and individuals are operating over time on a scale from dinosaur brain to enlightened. Successful results have to take this into account.
Behavioral science indicates most enter primative self defense states when attacked. A successful humanist campaign for change may need to take lessons from relationship building.
G. Gibson@kneworldodor @benroyce @iwein @ruakueqche @minego @punissuer These are the same fools that think AI is the key to free labor.
@mistergibson @benroyce @iwein @ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
Corporatists and fascists? AI is hardly free. IMO what really attracts them is control. That's why the rise of AI and robotics is scary. It has the potential to take one person's dictatorship into the real world without the minimal ethics of the kings thugs. Just one mad emperor with many disposable bodies filling all the police state roles. They could code instead of influence.
Corporatists and fascists? AI is hardly free. IMO what really attracts them is control. That's why the rise of AI and robotics is scary. It has the potential to take one person's dictatorship into the real world without the minimal ethics of the kings thugs. Just one mad emperor with many disposable bodies filling all the police state roles. They could code instead of influence.
Ambulocetus@kneworldodor @benroyce @iwein
@ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
This is so true. There is a book by Science Communicator David McRaney that explores the different ways that people actually change their minds, and building a relationship is one of the things that successful tactics have in common. Here is a podcast that summarizes the book. https://youarenotsosmart.com/2022/06/27/yanss-236-how-minds-change/
@ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
This is so true. There is a book by Science Communicator David McRaney that explores the different ways that people actually change their minds, and building a relationship is one of the things that successful tactics have in common. Here is a podcast that summarizes the book. https://youarenotsosmart.com/2022/06/27/yanss-236-how-minds-change/
@Ambulocetus @kneworldodor @iwein @ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
you mean ranting on social media doesn't do it? 😆
(just kidding)
MidgePhotoI deprecate them, but the people who vote for horror do not have the excuse that others should have stopped them.
oh yeah, MAGA is not exactly the same as nonvoters, agreed
my point is that MAGA is manipulated to vote out of hate
and nonvoters are manipulated to not vote out of apathy
it's two sides of the same psyop on democracy to destroy it
in *this* way, nonvoters are as bad as MAGA:
manipulated morons driving us to fascism via a two pronged divide and conquer
Sean Fenian@benroyce @midgephoto Failure to vote against what is clearly terrible is only slightly less bad than actively voting for the terrible. Either you couldn't see that it was going to be terrible, or you saw it coming but still couldn't be arsed to try to prevent it.
And if you truly convinced yourself that "both sides are equally bad", then you're just a tunnel-blind fool.
And if you truly convinced yourself that "both sides are equally bad", then you're just a tunnel-blind fool.
You run into a logical problem there, which effectively disproves that:
Turn your assertion around and you are arguing that voting for what is clearly awful is only _slightly_ worse than not voting at all.
If you lose the "only slightly" qualifier you are on firm ground.
There has been some previous work on this, by various philosophers, who IIRC generally have common ground that you _should_ vote.
Australians are pragmatic.
@midgephoto @zakalwe @benroyce
The missing piece is building a better alternative while rejecting the worse evil. The lesser evil has a history of resistance to change outside of being dragged by the Overton window.
The missing piece is building a better alternative while rejecting the worse evil. The lesser evil has a history of resistance to change outside of being dragged by the Overton window.
Ginger (she/her)@zakalwe
thank you for putting this into words so nicely. i feel like i've been banging my head against this wall with multiple inactive friends, and so far i don't feel like i'm getting anywhere.
thank you for putting this into words so nicely. i feel like i've been banging my head against this wall with multiple inactive friends, and so far i don't feel like i'm getting anywhere.
Irene (she/they, Sir/Mr.)@benroyce
@midgephoto its still a false equivalency tho, the damage of a weighted vote isnt equal to the "impact" of an unweighted abstention, the impact of a weighted vote will always be worse and in that sense, abstention is preferable esp if it would otherwise have been a weighted vote
Also sry for all the edits 😭
to certain degrees
in a genuine healthy voting system, yes
in our stupid fucking FPTP voting system, less so
@benroyce
@midgephoto still tho, framing nonvotes as being equal to MAGA votes erases the difference and does disservice to them both. By taking responsibility away from MAGA voters and displacing it unjustly onto nonvoters, we make them BOTH less likely to take up what responsibility IS theirs, which is also incidentally the entry point of class consciousness... point is, the difference is significant, the reasons to keep making the distinction outweigh the reasons to erase it
@midgephoto still tho, framing nonvotes as being equal to MAGA votes erases the difference and does disservice to them both. By taking responsibility away from MAGA voters and displacing it unjustly onto nonvoters, we make them BOTH less likely to take up what responsibility IS theirs, which is also incidentally the entry point of class consciousness... point is, the difference is significant, the reasons to keep making the distinction outweigh the reasons to erase it
i would be a pathetic reply guy motivated to "win an argument" over trying to make sense if i tried to say MAGA is exactly the same as nonvoters
but it's not what i'm saying
what i'm saying:
MAGA is manipulated to vote out of hate
nonvoters are manipulated to not vote out of apathy
2 sides of the same psyop on democracy to destroy it
in this way, nonvoters are as bad as MAGA in bringing us fascism *motivationally*
indeed, they are not technical vote equivalents
@benroyce
@midgephoto the thing that is the same is the force manipulating them. Their motives for their actions are NOT equivalent, bc apathy and malevolent malice are not equal in the ways in or degrees to which they cause harm. Apathy doesnt produce fascism, fascists do. In the absence of fascists, there is no fascism. I will die on this hill.
@midgephoto the thing that is the same is the force manipulating them. Their motives for their actions are NOT equivalent, bc apathy and malevolent malice are not equal in the ways in or degrees to which they cause harm. Apathy doesnt produce fascism, fascists do. In the absence of fascists, there is no fascism. I will die on this hill.
Like, people who stay home playing videogames because they don't care about anything are not good people, true.
But, if I remember correctly, Harris was not elected in any primary election. She was directly chosen by the elite of the Democratic party. If that's true, then apathy through disenfranchisement is even more true than what I was saying before
@ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
the only way out of our mess is for people to show up in the midterms and the primaries *hard*
if they do that, then credit to them
if they cannot, they are useless whiny impotent assholes as bad as MAGA
vote, you lazy fucking motherfuckers
@benroyce
@ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
I would add: campaigns need candidates & managers & treasurers & canvassers &&&... if you want better representatives, you have to participate beyond voting. Voting is the entry point, the absolute barest minimum. All of us have excuses not to. For example, >1 in 4 of us have a disability. But doing even one single thing more matters & makes a difference, bc 1 > 0, and too many are helping so little but complaining & pointing fingers SO MUCH
@irenetherogue @ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
well said
and protest
and do direct action
and do local action
all the good things
but if you're someone sitting out there who thinks you do not have to also vote, you are a complete moron, and you are sabotaging all of your good work
voting is not a *replacement* for good work, it's not an either/ or
it's just something very simple you *also* do to move things in the right direction
mizblueprint@benroyce @irenetherogue @ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
There should be NO uncontested offices. Put your own name on the ballot. There is no bar to running for a local office. School board, sewer district, city council... So many positions, and all need to be filled with people willing to do the work of self governance. You do not need lots of "campaign workers". You are the campaigner, and small budget campaigns don't need a lot of paper work.
There should be NO uncontested offices. Put your own name on the ballot. There is no bar to running for a local office. School board, sewer district, city council... So many positions, and all need to be filled with people willing to do the work of self governance. You do not need lots of "campaign workers". You are the campaigner, and small budget campaigns don't need a lot of paper work.
@mizblueprint
@benroyce @ruakueqche@kolektiva.social @minego @punissuer i'm a disabled parent of 4 and live in a wealthy, densely populated area. Small budget to beat red here is $150k. Tell me more about what I don't need.
@benroyce @ruakueqche@kolektiva.social @minego @punissuer i'm a disabled parent of 4 and live in a wealthy, densely populated area. Small budget to beat red here is $150k. Tell me more about what I don't need.
@irenetherogue @mizblueprint @minego @punissuer
no one disputes the difficulty. mizblueprint is merely trying to encourage excitement and engagement
we can't be so optimistic as to think it is so simple. we also can't be pessimistic as to think it is too hard
i am accusing you, and mizblueprint, of nothing
i support and embrace both of you
we merely need more engagement as mizblueprint says, and a cold hard reckoning of the difficulty as you say
@benroyce
@mizblueprint @minego @punissuer
Gotcha, well said! And apologies mizblueprint for getting defensive, I totally misread the vibe of your comment & absolutely see what Ben's referring to. Agreed, getting active is probably way more accessible than it seems, esp bc there are lots of small ways to help, and none of us are alone!
@benroyce
@mizblueprint @minego @punissuer
Truly, its an intensely stressful time. Thank you all the same tho 🕊️🫶
@irenetherogue @benroyce @minego @punissuer
I have run for office five times, & won three terms in city wide elections for city council. I retired from elected office, & have supported several younger people through appointed positions, into elected positions. I helped connect them with campaign consultants, volunteers, endorsements, & contributors. I felt that I would be "blocking" qualified younger people from office if I stayed into my 70's. Uncontested incumbents should not even be a thing.
I have run for office five times, & won three terms in city wide elections for city council. I retired from elected office, & have supported several younger people through appointed positions, into elected positions. I helped connect them with campaign consultants, volunteers, endorsements, & contributors. I felt that I would be "blocking" qualified younger people from office if I stayed into my 70's. Uncontested incumbents should not even be a thing.
@benroyce
@ruakueqche @minego @punissuer as i said, voting is the entry point. I strongly dispute that not voting cancels out or sabotages campaign labor, it simply leaves low hanging fruit on the tree.
As an aside, i invite u look up the difference between calling out & calling in, or if youre already aware of the difference, to start employing that knowledge. For starters, maybe dont put "if u dont, youre a [slur]" on your call to action, the reasons to do it dont outweigh the reasons not to
@irenetherogue @benroyce @minego @punissuer
I like people doing this. I don't have faith efforts like these change much. But we need good and active people inside the state machine so when the external pressure from protests and strikes come crashing, there are people inside who want to yield to it
@ruakueqche @irenetherogue @minego @punissuer
if those protesters are not also voting, then the people trying to do good inside the machine lose, and the malicious assholes that replace them simply machine gun the protesters
you need to wake the fuck up
you have an extremely naive misunderstanding of the stakes and the dangers
protesting alone is *not* good enough
you *must* also vote. period
➴➴➴Æ🜔Ɲ.Ƈꭚ⍴𝔥єɼ👩🏻💻@ruakueqche @benroyce @minego @punissuer
I mean, we can be mad at both. Generally, though, if the IDF is actively compaigning for a guy, the strategy of not-voting against his is the larger support for genocide.
Black and white thinking about this stuff is 100% playing into right wing hands.
@AeonCypher @ruakueqche @minego @punissuer
as always, perfect is played as the enemy of the good
and immature morons fall for it, and don't vote
and don't even understand how they are being manipulated via their apathy, in exactly the same way MAGA is manipulated via their hate
@ruakueqche
@benroyce @punissuer Wow.
I hope this is mean, because I intend it to be. Yes, I can blame people for causing harm. Yes, genocide is happening either way, and yes that is horrific and needs to be stopped. Other harms exist as well though, and ignoring that and then claiming you are doing good is a fucking lie.
Harris was wrong to support Israel, and if she had been elected we would have continued
the fight against that.
Throwing everyone else into the line of fire while doing NOTHING to help Gaza is NOT the fucking moral high ground you think it is.