Ruth Mottram

This is going to be interesting to follow. According to this Danish news piece the German Ministry of Defence in turning away from Microsoft have just signed a contract to develop an open source alternative.

I wonder what they will choose?

# DigitalSovreignty

Https://www.dr.dk/nyheder/udland/det-tyske-forsvar-vender-ryggen-til-microsoft

Det tyske forsvar vender ryggen til Microsoft

Digital suverænitet og frisættelse fra amerikanske techgiganter har fået det tyske forsvar til at skifte it-løsningerne ud.

DR
Apr 10 at 6:40amWeb
Show threadErikaApr 10
@Ruth_Mottram Interesting, I have not yet heard about it. 🤔#Microsoft
Show threadMurmeltHierApr 10

@Ruth_Mottram

OpenDesk - an already ongoing project by the German gouvernement.

https://www.heise.de/news/Rahmenvertrag-MS-365-Alternative-OpenDesk-soll-die-Bundeswehr-erobern-10342327.html

Rahmenvertrag: MS-365-Alternative OpenDesk soll die Bundeswehr erobern

Das IT-Systemhaus der Bundeswehr BWI hat mit Zendis einen Rahmenvertrag über "souveräne Kommunikations- und Kollaborationslösungen" wie OpenDesk geschlossen.

heise online
Show threadMarekApr 10

@Ruth_Mottram I think they've announced they're going with OpenDesk, which was funded by the German Ministry of the Interior.

Mostly open source code they've curated and integrated.

https://opendesk.eu/en/

The office and collaboration suite for public administration | openDesk

openDesk is a flexible and modern office and collaboration suite for daily work in public administration, including word processing, collaboration and shared file storage, video conferencing, chat and project management.

openDesk
Show threadMartin Vermeer FCDApr 10
@wildenstern @Ruth_Mottram Confusingly, there is also an opendesk for furniture...
Show threadMarek6d ago

@martinvermeer @Ruth_Mottram

That would be a whole other Ministry of the Interior...

Show threadBenoît Jones6d ago
@wildenstern @martinvermeer @Ruth_Mottram ministry of interior design?
Show threadThomas LavergneApr 10
@wildenstern @Ruth_Mottram would someone have a link to the announcement in German?
Show threadMarek6d ago

@lavergnetho I'm afraid I don't speak German, but this seems to be something like it?

https://www.deskmodder.de/blog/2025/04/07/bundeswehr-setzt-auf-digitale-souveraenitaet-statt-microsoft-365/

It was published about the same time as I saw the news in English, and seems to have the keywords at least!

Bundeswehr setzt auf digitale Souveränität statt Microsoft 365 - Deskmodder.de

Wichtige digitale Bausteine für die Bundeswehr: openDesk und openCode ermöglichen mehr Selbstständigkeit in der IT.

Show threadiobear6d ago
@lavergnetho https://www.heise.de/news/Rahmenvertrag-MS-365-Alternative-OpenDesk-soll-die-Bundeswehr-erobern-10342327.html
Rahmenvertrag: MS-365-Alternative OpenDesk soll die Bundeswehr erobern

Das IT-Systemhaus der Bundeswehr BWI hat mit Zendis einen Rahmenvertrag über "souveräne Kommunikations- und Kollaborationslösungen" wie OpenDesk geschlossen.

heise online
Show threadOsma A 🇫🇮🇺🇦6d ago
This looks like effectively the same software which was deployed at the European Parliament and reportedly aborted.. Nextcloud/Collabora sounds great, but in practice is super clunky. That said, so is SharePoint and O365 Online.
https://www.edps.europa.eu/press-publications/press-news/press-releases/2023/edps-pilot-use-open-source-software_en
@wildenstern @Ruth_Mottram
EDPS to pilot the use of Open Source Software

In February 2023, the EDPS has started piloting the use of the Open Source Software Nextcloud and Collabora Online (based on LibreOffice technology). Together, they offer the possibility to share files, send messages, make video calls, and allows collaborative drafting, in a secured cloud ...

European Data Protection Supervisor
Show threadKorrespondent zur SeeApr 10
@Ruth_Mottram It has been around in (german) tech news for a few days. OpenDesktop is specialized solving government requirements and the lead company behind it seems to have already made the messenger for german military for the last years. https://www.golem.de/news/opendesk-open-source-fuer-die-bundeswehr-2504-195144.html @Erika
Opendesk: Open Source für die Bundeswehr - Golem.de

Um die digitale Souveränität der deutschen Streitkräfte zu stärken, setzt die Bundeswehr zukünftig auf die MS-Office-Alternative Opendesk.

Golem.de
Show threadErikaApr 10
@Hinnerk I think it's a clever idea to get away from US-data collection. Especially for our forces.
@Ruth_Mottram
Show threadCruiser 🇪🇺🇺🇦🇬🇱🇨🇦🇲🇽Apr 10
@Erika @Hinnerk @Ruth_Mottram Everyone should have started that journey after #SchremsII if not already after #SchremsI 🤓 We all knew, if we payed attention - #gdpr is just one perspective
Show threadTechsorcistApr 10

@Ruth_Mottram Perhaps they will boost this: https://lasuite.numerique.gouv.fr/en

iirc the docs version of it was already codeveloped between the #French and the #Germans

It will be very interesting to see how this develops. I tlooks like to be everything an individual or SME needs as well.

Work with La Suite numérique

La Suite numérique brings all agents and professionals together in the public sphere

Show threadTommi NieminenApr 10
@Ruth_Mottram This should happen EU-wide. Denmark by itself is a teeny tiny buyer, but if all the EU countries were in the interested list things might actually change.
Show threadKethiannaApr 10

@tomminieminen @Ruth_Mottram I also think it should be an EU wide effort to make this.

Hopefully it will be available for normal consumers at some point.

Show threadLeelooApr 10
@tomminieminen @Ruth_Mottram
Even if it was EU wide, Danish politicians would still buy Microsoft. Just like they are still talking about buying more F35s to defend against Putin invading Greenland, in a time when Trump is actually threatening to do so.
Show threadTommi NieminenApr 10
@leeloo @Ruth_Mottram There are reasons for buying Microsoft. Usually when big organizations need a comprehensive IT solution, Microsoft can push the price low enough that there really is no economical alternatives. (Not even a “free” solution is actually free to use: you need maintenance and support.)
Show threadMartin Vermeer FCD6d ago
@tomminieminen @leeloo @Ruth_Mottram Yep, and the costs of leakage of private or classified info to a hostile power and of that power cutting off the software were never included, and before Trump, one could try to believe those to be negligible. Of course they never were.
Show threadLaust6d ago
@tomminieminen @leeloo @Ruth_Mottram however, Microsoft has consistently been increasing their licensing prices because so many Danish (municipal, regional, and state level) agencies are very much wedded to MS solutions - and there is very little drive to get away from them - so they are in some cases firing people to afford the licenses.
Show threadLaust6d ago
@tomminieminen @leeloo @Ruth_Mottram follow-up:
I was being a bit unkind. The municipality of Århus has managed to move away from Azure and on to a Nextcloud offering from Hetzner IIRC.
But the main point still stands for most agencies and municipalities.
Show threadjramskov6d ago
@Laust @tomminieminen @leeloo @Ruth_Mottram Agreed, it would be an incredible massive task to switch away from Microsoft. There's no doubt thousands upon thousands of programs, written to run on Windows platforms that would need to be re-written/replaced.
Show threadLeeloo6d ago

@jramskov @Laust @tomminieminen @Ruth_Mottram
So keep Windows for now, replacing everything else over time.

Make "must work with LibreOffice" (or whatever they pick as a future target) a part of all future development contracts, as well as "must run on non-Windows platforms".

Over time that would make the dependency on Microsoft smaller, rather than making us more dependent as current policies do.

Show threadLaust6d ago
@jramskov @tomminieminen @leeloo @Ruth_Mottram the main problem as far as I know is the amount of integrations from third party programs to MS office.
This is doable but requires someone actually do it.
Show threadArne Babenhauserheide6d ago

@tomminieminen you need maintenance and support *and training*.

Even at universities I’ve seen so many advertisements by the University to provide training for unfree software but not once for bibtex that provides what most students need.

But no training, so too many people are stuck with shiny, short-lived browser extensions.
@leeloo @Ruth_Mottram

Show threadKobold6d ago
@tomminieminen @leeloo @Ruth_Mottram Not sure which #microsoft you are talking about, but the one I know keeps increasing prices constantly, to cover for its own incompetencies. Proof point: Nobody wants to buy their #AI hence they make it mandatory part of their subscription and raise prices. There is no economic justification for this .....
Show threadtyil6d ago

@tomminieminen @leeloo @Ruth_Mottram

Microsoft can push the price low enough that there really is no economical alternativesSure, if you only care for the short-term financial aspect and absolutely nothing else, it could be argued as "a reason to buy Microsoft", but I wouldn't call it "economical". Saving 10 bucks today to burn 1000 bucks tomorrow isn't economical.

Show threadAxel6d ago

@tomminieminen @leeloo @Ruth_Mottram

I guess this is widely known as drug-dealers marketing: give free drugs until the user is hooked, then raise prices.
Microsoft learned from the best!

Show threadTommi Nieminen6d ago
@axel @leeloo @Ruth_Mottram Quite so! But even so one shouldn't blame the buyers too much. Microsoft is able to provide a comprehensive all-in-one solution with everything an organization needs: OS for both desktop and servers, office and PIM (contacts, calendar), email, messaging, cloud storage — all integrated with each other. Plus centralized policy management, support and maintenance. No current Linux solution can compete. A bigger actor like EU opting for FLOSS might change the game.
Show threadAxel6d ago

@tomminieminen @leeloo @Ruth_Mottram

You are completely right. Let’s hope the combined French and German Open Source endeavours so far prove fruitful.

Show threadPaul in de Emiraten6d ago

@tomminieminen @leeloo @Ruth_Mottram that’s true, and the opposite is true too. In my previous life I’ve helped several organisations with choosing non-MS and often way cheaper or open-source solutions that worked to everyone’s satisfaction.

Lazyness and risk-aversness of the managers who don’t know sh*t about ICT but who are in charge, are the two main elements that keep MS in the saddle. All their software -except Azure- is mediocre at best.

Show threadTommi Nieminen6d ago
@Paul_Harts @leeloo @Ruth_Mottram What I’ve heard from actual admins (not being one myself) is that there’s one thing Windows actually does well: centralized administration. It's easy to pick individual properties and capabilities and either allow or disallow changing their values on workstations. Of course this is something experienced pros hate when they have to use those computers with restricted privileges, but it makes the day-to-day grind of the IT helpdesks way easier.
Show threadPaul in de Emiraten6d ago

@tomminieminen @leeloo @Ruth_Mottram it’s absolutely true that admin and SSO are well designed and well implemented in MS.
But there are other options that are as good or better and that give you way more flexibility in a selection of other software packages.

Generally speaking, Admins are very willing to experiment with other stuff, in my experience.

It Is the management layer above that thinks: “nobody ever got fired for choosing Microsoft.”

Show threadNoBorgApr 10
@Ruth_Mottram Interesting, but after a quick search in the news (english/french/spanish), I found nothing about it.
Yet, I see people answered you who seem to be aware of it. It seems like all is happening in Deutsch (und ich verstehen nichts auf Deutsch). So, I guess I'll follow you to keep us informed ;)
Show threadTechsorcistApr 10
@Ruth_Mottram I would also like to add this: https://www.euractiv.com/section/tech/news/european-industry-big-win-germany-france-both-support-sovereign-eu-based-tech-infrastructure/
Show threadRegendansApr 10
#DigitalSovereignty #Microsoft #EUpol
Show threadPaule PantherApr 10
@Ruth_Mottram "develop an open source alternative." Made me smile. Usually we german pioneers are not that successful in doing new things or walking on unknown terrain. Exciting.
Show threadJess FairbairnApr 10
@Ruth_Mottram I'm guessing a very very striped and stable down version of Linux. There's an argument for BSD as well
Show threadKlimastig6d ago

@Ruth_Mottram According to this danish article, the company Zendis is chosen to deliver the solutions. It will be built around the OpenDesk solution (a german package reminiscient of MS-solutions, but with opensource, and special focus on the needs in public administration):

https://ing.dk/artikel/tysk-forsvar-indgaar-aftale-om-open-source-platform-der-skal-erstatte-hele-microsoft-365

Tysk forsvar indgår aftale om open-source platform, der skal erstatte hele Microsoft 365 | Ingeniøren

Mens Danmark har svært ved at finde en vej ud af techgiganternes greb, så finder tyske forsvar og myndigheder duelige erstatninger.

Ingeniøren
Show threadGreengordon6d ago

@Stig @Ruth_Mottram

1. When will the all-seeing market price in the value of US companies that lose most of the world market?
2. When will we realize our govt’s could do this for us and many things?

"According to this danish article, the company Zendis is chosen to deliver the solutions. It will be built around the OpenDesk solution (a german package reminiscient of MS-solutions, but with opensource, and special focus on the needs in public administration)”

#Microsoft #opensource #cdnpoli

Show threadKlimastig6d ago
@Greengordon @Ruth_Mottram Actually I think it's coming. Not overnight, but it is coming.
Show threadDan Ysnæs6d ago
@Ruth_Mottram @Stig Tror du vi vil have sværer ved at skifte end tyskerne? Jeg tænker på vi er væsentligt mere spundet ind i forbundet netværk...
Show threadKlimastig6d ago
@dysnaes @Ruth_Mottram Ja, helt klart. Danmark er meget mere sovset ind i især MS azure løsninger. Men det meste IT kunne vi såmænd godt flytte til opensource, uden større problemer.
Show threadArne Babenhauserheide6d ago
@Ruth_Mottram I hope they (well, our defense ministry) don’t build something completely new just for themselves (that then never finishes), but instead build upon established Free Software tools and improve them so they fulfill their needs.
Show threadMark vW5d ago
@Ruth_Mottram Collaborative intergovernmental agencies created by agreement creating shared open-source software designed to solve common problems. Open source avoids the inevitable who-controls-what problems and enables self-interested non-participating governments to make meaningful contributions. Really huge money saver for things like property tax software.