Mastodawn

John Gruber

@paul Tell me a good Topre keyboard to buy so I don't buy this $3600 one. Please help.

Steve Riggins Mar 20, 2025

@gruber @paul I have a butterfly laptop laying around somewhere

[1] https://www.rebultkeyboards.com/search?q=Sho

Sohan Mar 21, 2025

@gruber @paul Depends on your layout preference. These are the best off the shelf options.
Tenkeyless → Realforce R3
65% → Leopold FC660C
60% → HHKB Hybrid

Most enthusiasts actually prefer the sound and feel of stock boards over their expensive custom builds.

My recommendation for a custom Topre board would be Sho keyboards[1]. His housings are pretty close to Norbauer quality at a fraction of the price.

You will have to assemble the keyboard yourself though.

Sho

Rebult Keyboards sells custom mechanical keyboard components and parts. From Malaysia, we ship internationally!

Rebult Keyboards

tbolt Mar 21, 2025

@so @gruber @paul I’d like to pickup a Realforce R3 but they’re tough to find in US.

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/collections/realforce

Sohan Mar 21, 2025

@tbolt @gruber @paul mechanicalkeyboards.com is a US distributor. they’re running a sale right now.

Realforce

Joel Mar 21, 2025

@gruber @paul please someone who is good at the economy help me with my budget. My family is dying.

Groceries $100
Rent $500
Keyboard $3600

@gruber RC1 I really like, but you have to be able to deal with the slightly odd shift row layout. R3 is good for a more standard TKL or 100% layout.
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/collections/realforce

Some folks really dig the HHKB ones but I refuse to use a keyboard without arrow keys. Though they do look really nice.
https://hhkeyboard.us/hhkb/pro-hybrid-type-s

Leopold FC660c is a personal favorite but is no longer made.

Start with a 45g + silent switch (which should be the most common these days) and then you can branch out.

Realforce

Jordan Mar 21, 2025

@paul @gruber do you use any form of wrist rest? Any issues with having your fingers up "high" all day?

@jordan I do. I don’t. Been using high profile keyboards my entire life, never had any issues with them wrist wise.

Jordan Mar 21, 2025

@paul Lucky. I love the idea of “real" keyboards, but just can't manage to use them. The Magic Keyboard is all I can use.

Which, considering it's got TouchID, isn't the worst.

@paul Yeah, same for me with HHKB — I just can’t without arrow keys.

Realforce: man, that logo…

Francesco Marini Mar 21, 2025

@gruber @paul yeah, no arrow keys, no sale for me.

Regarding the logo, it troubles me. That’s an uppercase lambda, so I read it as “ReLlforce”.
And also, the baseline is wrong (the lambda is a bit higher than the other letters), and that’s really hurting my eyes. And if I were to nitpick, the lambda is separated from the preceding ‘e’ , but it’s ligated (?) to the following ‘l’.
A real mess.

@gruber Right. The R2/R3S have less obtrusive logos.

R2 is discontinued and isn't programable. R3S has laser printed keycaps. Both have really long built in USB-A cables.

You can, as I did with the one at the top of the picture, swap the R3S caps with the R2 caps and then do some minor surgery to add a USB-C port.

@paul Me: resists urge to commission my own keyboard like @codinghorror did with the Code keyboard…

Stuart Gibson Mar 21, 2025

@gruber @paul @codinghorror

You're allowed to do it after you donate $1m to Let's Encrypt.

@gruber that's actually surprisingly doable Topre wise this year, there's a guy making clone domes/sliders/springs which previously were only available from REALFORCE.

Guillaume Ross Mar 21, 2025

@gruber @paul @codinghorror While you Kickstarter that, I'll go make one for a Magic Keyboard for Vision Pro which is just the bottom half of a laptop.

tylercheung Mar 22, 2025

@gruber @paul @codinghorror the sad part is WASD is out of business i think

Jim Luther Mar 22, 2025

@tylercheung @gruber @paul @codinghorror They are? That’s too bad. I guess it’s good I bought a 10-pack of extra switches a year or so ago for my code keyboard.

@jimluther @tylercheung @paul @codinghorror Alas: https://support.wasdkeyboards.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/27398762768791-Is-WASD-Keyboard-done

John Gruber Mar 22, 2025

overstrike Mar 22, 2025

@jimluther @tylercheung @gruber @paul @codinghorror I was under the impression WASD used off-the-shelf Cherry MX switches?

Jim Luther Mar 22, 2025

@overstrike @tylercheung @gruber @paul @codinghorror they are. WASD was just an easy place to get keyboard parts.

@gruber RC1 and Leopold FC660c are a lot cleaner looking.

@paul Those are definitely cleaner but I’ve tried enough compact layouts to know I not only want arrow keys, I want them off to the side.

Marcello Bastéa-Forte Mar 21, 2025

@gruber @paul for me the issue with mechanical keyboards is I switch between desk and laptop frequently, and the slight dimension shift and position of Fn key throws me off to a frustrating degree, so I end up using the (non number pad) Apple keyboard. How do y’all deal with that?

Francesco Marini Mar 21, 2025

@gruber @paul oh, wait.

You were talking about the prominence of the logo on the R3 😅 I feel dumb now 🤦🏻‍♂️

@fmarini @paul Well, the combination: ugly and prominent.

Gene Goykhman Mar 22, 2025

@gruber @paul didn’t you have a lifetime supply of AEK2s? Feeling the urge for something new?

John Gruber Mar 22, 2025

@genegoykhman @paul I should he set for life with AEK II’s. But I have a FOMO that there’s something I might like better. I would definitely prefer a layout without the numpad keys, so I could move my trackpad closer.

Gene Goykhman Mar 22, 2025

@gruber @paul and so it begins.

Tyler Kuntz Mar 21, 2025

@paul @gruber
I try to convince everyone I can about this because I think it’s so great. Use vim style arrows keys, but not the standard hjkl keys, ijkl. It’s a regular inverted T shape, using caps lock as modifier for it. I think it’s a game changer not having to move hand at all to use. Bonus point is not having to worry about half height keys. Really easy to set up using Karabiner Elements on Mac for any keyboard.

Nero Wolfe Mar 21, 2025

@paul @gruber ha. Just today ordered one of the r3 for Mac. White one

Fabien Penso Mar 25, 2025

@paul @gruber Just ordered a RC1 because of you. Had a Topre 87UW, then bought a Q1 + same switch you tweeted about.

Edmund Mar 21, 2025

@gruber @paul The Niz Plum keyboards are pretty nice topre-like boards from China. These keycaps look like MTNU from the Italian designer Mateo. I have them. There are a bit too low for my taste.

aeberbach Mar 21, 2025

@gruber @paul Topre is fine, I have two, but I prefer Gateron KS-33 low-profile switches now. Try Keychron or Nuphy.

Kfir Breger Mar 21, 2025

@gruber if you can, try the HHKB. 6 years ago I tried it for 10 minutes. That was all it took for me. I couldn’t use anything else after that.

@kfirbreger They look so cool and I can see why folks love them, but I need arrow keys.

Kfir Breger Mar 21, 2025

@gruber I’m gonna be that guy and go with “but actually”.
There are arrow keys, you just need to press the Fn modifier key. Normally that would suck, but it’s right next to the arrow keys so it’s so easy to do with one hand, that I don’t even realize I am pressing it while using the arrow keys.

I also get not wanting to.

Jon Arntzen Mar 21, 2025

@gruber @paul Wait for the EC version of Agar to become available https://kbdfans.com/products/agar?variant=43137061453963

Agar