Mastodawn

From EUmail to EuTube and Feuerfox, it's time for #EU + national govt to put money where European tech development is and help wean the continent off #UStech - fantastic, practical piece by @bert_hubert.

https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/now-how-to-get-that-european-cloud/

But how to get to that European cloud? - Bert Hubert's writings

The very short version: It has now become clear that European governments can no longer rely on American clouds, and that we lack good and comprehensive alternatives. Market forces have failed to deliver a truly European cloud, and businesses won’t naturally buy as yet unproven cloud services, even when adorned with a beautiful European 🇪🇺 flag, so for now nothing will happen. This article is part of a series of posts on (European) cloud challenges.

Bert Hubert's writings

Ulrike Hahn Mar 19, 2025

@Ruth_Mottram @bert_hubert @jeroenbosman interesting piece, thanks for posting!

John Faithfull 🌍🇪🇺🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🧡✊🏻✊🏿Mar 19, 2025

@Ruth_Mottram @bert_hubert This 👇 ☹️

Kevin Lyda Mar 19, 2025

@Ruth_Mottram @bert_hubert #Scaleway is pretty good.

Andrew Dalke Mar 19, 2025

@Ruth_Mottram @bert_hubert

I would like to also see discussion about weaning the #EU off of US smartphones.

My government, Sweden, pretty much expects people to use Microsoft, Google, or Apple devices to access government-run digital services, with only rare support for other OSes/systems.

Guillaume Gaullier Mar 19, 2025

@dalke If BankID works on a de-googled phone (for example one from Murena), I suppose there will be no problem at all. And you can even fall back to the small OTP device instead of the app (although much less convenient).

All government sites I need to use have always worked fine in desktop Firefox, even with uBlock and relatively strict privacy settings. Haven't tested on Linux yet, but I don't see why it would cause problems (the browser is mostly the same across different systems). I will test this soon anyway, replacing an old dying Macbook by a Linux laptop this week.

@Ruth_Mottram @bert_hubert

Andrew Dalke Mar 19, 2025

@Guillawme @Ruth_Mottram @bert_hubert

I have asked. BankID said they do not support other OSes. If it happens to work, they do not promise it will continue to work.

What small OTP device? I've not heard mention of it.

I also don't want a smartphone at all; that's another topic.

https://www.vgregion.se/ov/hitta-vaccinationstider-vgr/vaccinationstider-covid-19/ does not work on Firefox for Mac with location services turned off. In the console:

Uncaught TypeError: navigator.geolocation is undefined

I reported it last year. They have not fixed it.

Vaccinationstider covid-19 - Västra Götalandsregionen

Här kan du se mottagningar som har lediga tider för vaccination mot covid-19 i VGR.

Ruth Mottram Mar 19, 2025

@dalke @Guillawme @bert_hubert IN DK we have MitID digital ID verification - It very often fails with firefox browsers, though not all - I have managed to get it to work by using Chrome once and then going back to Firefox, but it's definitely not ideal and they very clearly state they only support Chrome on their website, which seems morally at least like giving a big subsidy to Google...

Andrew Dalke Mar 19, 2025

@Ruth_Mottram @Guillawme @bert_hubert

I'm sure the US will allow Denmark to continue using Chrome so long as you give them Greenland. *sigh*

I've been trying to find a legal opinion on if agreeing to Google's Terms of Service can be called voluntary if the only supported/reasonable way to get services from the government is by agreeing to those ToS.

Are Danish schools teaching enough contract law so kids are fully able to understand the terms?

(These are musings. No answer expected.)

Guillaume Gaullier Mar 20, 2025

@dalke Didn't you get an OTP device like the one in this picture? https://markeldo.com/images/bankid-card.jpg

I had to use a device similar to this before I could use the BankID app. In fact, every few years I have to renew the app's token using the "little calculator" as I call it.

Some sites only accept the app because you have to scan a QR code. But it would be strange if government websites didn't let you enter the one-time code given by the little calculator. I have not tried it though, because the QR code is so convenient...

@Ruth_Mottram @bert_hubert

Andrew Dalke Mar 20, 2025

@Guillawme @Ruth_Mottram @bert_hubert

That's not BankID, that's a bank login dosa. Handelsbank's "BankID" login pages let you use it, but it can't be used to, for example, log into https://www.pensionsmyndigheten.se/

BTW, how do you like Handelsbank? I'm looking to move from Swedbank and Handelsbank seems like a good fit for me.

Vi informerar om hela pensionen | Pensionsmyndigheten

Hos Pensionsmyndigheten kan du ansöka om pension, förstå hur din pension fungerar och planera inför framtiden. Gör en prognos och se vad du kan få per månad!

Guillaume Gaullier Mar 20, 2025

@dalke I see, maybe different banks call this device differently. My bank seems to conflate the two, by calling the app "digital BankID" (and implying the OTP device is therefore a "non-digital" BankID, as in "not an app").

I don't have an account at Handelsbanken by the way, so can't answer your question. The picture is not mine, and it's a coincidence that the ID card has the same first name as me (I hadn't noticed when looking up a picture online).

@Ruth_Mottram @bert_hubert

hanno Mar 19, 2025

@Guillawme
Where do you source the app from then and how do you manage updates? I am using LineageOS w/o any Google services and don't have a Google account anymore, so I'd be thankful for alternatives to the App Store!

E.g. Signal and Theeema are installable from the respective home page and keep themselves updated. That'd be perfect as I would rather not trust a random site for a Banking/eID app 🫣
@dalke @Ruth_Mottram @bert_hubert

Guillaume Gaullier Mar 20, 2025

@hanno I have not tried, but Murena claims "most Android apps" work fine on their de-googled phone OS. Keyword "most" of course, so it's possible that BankID is one of the few that won't work. I would be interested to know, in case someone has tried it on a Murena phone (considering this for when my current phone dies, hopefully many years from now).

@dalke @Ruth_Mottram @bert_hubert

hanno Mar 20, 2025

@Guillawme
Usually, most publish their apps only to the Play Store and not to any third party repositories or stores -- do you know how Murena makes them available (if at all)? Their webpage does not mentioning anything about that I believe, but the Play Store requires at thr very least a Google login iirc.
@dalke @Ruth_Mottram @bert_hubert

Guillaume Gaullier Mar 21, 2025

@hanno Unclear, but it seems like Murena's "App Lounge" acts like a proxy between the Google Play Store and Murena's users?

@dalke @Ruth_Mottram @bert_hubert