Daring Fireball
Jeremy Keith on the Web on Mobile
https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/03/03/keith-web-on-mobile
Jeremy Keith on the Web on Mobile

Link to: https://adactio.com/journal/21728

Daring Fireball
Mar 3, 2025 at 8:52pmDF Tootbot
Show threadSteve BarnesMar 3, 2025

@daringfireball –

If we're deciding whether the Web or native apps are superior, "the people who make them" (or perhaps just how they're made) is a useful single factor to specify we're talking about. Typically when you've asserted native apps are better, I've taken you to mean both in theory and in all ways.

I'd agree the potential for good Web apps is way under-realized; not that there's no potential. For my money, the Mastodon Web app on iOS is way nicer than the Mastodon iOS app.

Show threadMichael CritzMar 4, 2025

@Starfia @daringfireball The aspect of web apps that’s clearly worse is discovery and installation.

Installing an iOS app is complicated but easy.

Installing a web app is simple but challenging.

Show threadSteve BarnesMar 5, 2025

@pixelscience –

The discovery specifically is easy and challenging respectively? It is on iOS and the Mac, I would agree – the system doesn't go out of its way to tell you about installing Web apps.

I've noticed that Android goes right ahead with some form of notification if a web page is configured as a Web app. So I think that's more of a critique of Apple than of Web apps.

Show threadMichael CritzMar 5, 2025
@Starfia Agreed. But the complaints about web apps tend to be Apple/WebKit related
Show threadSteve BarnesMar 5, 2025

@pixelscience –

Right – the article had already noted that, then shifted the topic to criticism inherent to Web apps themselves, arguing that's where it was deserved. So that's the context within which I was commenting.

Show threadFuzenMar 6, 2025
@pixelscience @Starfia @daringfireball how so? Add to Home Screen is hard? Not that much harder than navigating an App Store. The problem is lack of apps and regularity by the industry on how to install. But apart from that, the experience while in-app, in certain ways, is less desirable.
Show threadMichael CritzMar 6, 2025

@fuzenco @Starfia @daringfireball Like I said, it’s simple but challenging.

Let’s say you’re on a web site. How do you install a web app?

Show threadFuzenMar 6, 2025
@pixelscience @Starfia @daringfireball the site _is_ the app. A simple callout is all that’s needed. On iOS: Share > Add to Home Screen. Android is similar.
Show threadMichael CritzMar 6, 2025

@fuzenco @Starfia @daringfireball What you’re saying might be true if example.com and example.com/path were equivalent.

When you add trello.com/b/id1 as a web app it’s different than trello.com/b/id2.

There’s a lot of developer complexity you’ve ignored: sessions, local storage, offline, sync, background processing, large file storage, media playback. And, presumably, you don’t want your proprietary content (music, game assets, etc) stored without encryption.

It isn’t trivial.

Show threadSteve BarnesMar 6, 2025

@pixelscience, @fuzenco –

These days, isn't the scope of the app specifiable by the developer? No matter which page you add from, the system keeps you "in the app" while you navigate within the scope while opening external links in the browser. If the page isn't configured as an app, the system presumes what you want to export is a shortcut to that page.

So I think that whole "challenge" is defined away, unless I'm really missing something…?

Show threadSteve BarnesMar 6, 2025

@pixelscience, @fuzenco –

And everything else you mentioned – sessions, local storage, et cetera – those are all challenges for the developer as opposed to challenges for the person installing the app, aren't they? (Just as they are for native apps?)

Maybe I'm somehow not seeing your main point…?

Show threadMichael CritzMar 6, 2025
@Starfia @fuzenco Try it yourself
Show threadSteve BarnesMar 6, 2025

@pixelscience, @fuzenco –

I mention it because I've implemented it. No complaints so far.

Anything specific to double-check?

Show threadMichael CritzMar 6, 2025
@Starfia @fuzenco If what’s working for you is working, then great
Show threadFuzenMar 7, 2025
@Starfia @pixelscience agreed with everything you said. I created a web delivery app that drivers would use and I didn’t have problems whatsoever. Auth was required, session management, and a slew of other things. But most definitely, the onus is on developers. The act of saving as a Home Screen app is quite simple.
Show threadMichael CritzMar 7, 2025
@fuzenco @Starfia Great! I’m thrilled we all acknowledge that web apps are an alternative distribution method to the App Store.
Show threadSteve BarnesMar 8, 2025

@fuzenco –

That's so great to hear about practical examples – not just reading the specs and theorizing. Anything I can see, or is that app all over now…?

Show threadFuzenMar 8, 2025
@Starfia it’s over. Was used for a startup that didn’t go anywhere but it was cool to build. I used Processwire in both front and backend. And Google Maps API plus a 3rd party mapping/delivery tool.
Show threadzıəs uɐɟəʇs ✪Mar 3, 2025
@daringfireball Kudos! That was surely hard for you to publish (still not having a responsive site) ;-)
Show threadMaxMar 3, 2025
@daringfireball hey John, I can’t seem to get the mobile version of your website to load, I always end up with the desktop layout.
Show threadJimmy CallinMar 4, 2025
@daringfireball As an example, Bluesky is using literally the same code base both on web and app (using the Expo framework) - and yet the app experience is miles better. This isn’t because they care more about the app experience - the necessary APIs for the web simply don’t exist.
Show threadJohn GruberMar 4, 2025
@callin Websites like Bluesky aren't the problem.
Show threadJob BautistaMar 5, 2025
@daringfireball

> We should be so lucky if the biggest problems facing the web experience on iPhones were the technical limitations of WebKit.

Very true and I wish Apple does more on holding back webdevs' obsession with adopting and requiring Google-pushed standards as soon as they were made available. It would make web browser development so much easier and the open web stands to benefit from less "work" (read: unnecessary "features"/bloat and syntactical sugar inspired from C++ people don't really need in JavaScript) being done in the WHATWG.
Show threadJaiMar 5, 2025
@daringfireball 💯 can you believe there are still websites in 2025 that require pitch and zoom to be able to read them on a mobile phone?