Beertrix
Claes de Vreese โ๏ธAs Vance 'lectures' Europe on free speech, it is good to be reminded that the United States ranks 55 (!) on the World Press Freedom Index.
The top 10 countries are ALL in Europe.
๐ช๐บ Paul Schoonhoven ๐๐@claesdevreese with AP removing from the White House (and with that removing many news outlets around the world) I wonder how long the US under Trump wil keep that 55th place.
TL JordanOh, we're about to take a thrill ride plunge. We might even beat China for 172nd place next time.
Yeah, like a bad "testing in production" joke but with fascism.
Martin 
:FreeBSD:The US version of free speech... ๐คทโโ๏ธ
Michaล "rysiek" Woลบniak ยท ๐บ๐ฆ@claesdevreese map showing most of North America, Europe, large part of Africa, and a bit of South America. Countries colored based on World Press Freedom Index rank.
List of first 14 countries on a panel:
1. Norway
2. Denmark
3. Sweden
4. Netherlands
5. Finland
6. Estonia
7. Portugal
8. Ireland
9. Switzerland
10. Germany
11. Luxembourg
12. Latvia
13. Lithuania
14. Canada
EMC2@rysiek @claesdevreese
Clearly Canada needs to build relationships with some new allies in Europe. ๐จ๐ฆ
Clearly Canada needs to build relationships with some new allies in Europe. ๐จ๐ฆ
Steve Cuthbert@claesdevreese
Apart from Canada at 14, the top 18 are in Europe
Apart from Canada at 14, the top 18 are in Europe
Horst Albermann ๐ช๐บ๐ฉ๐ช@stevecut @claesdevreese We accept Canada ๐จ๐ฆ as an honorary member of the club ๐
Franรงois Caron ๐จ๐ฆ@h_albermann @stevecut @claesdevreese Hold off on that. We still have too many news outlets owned by private companies that exploit them for their own interests.
Bee O'Problem 
@Milnoc @h_albermann @stevecut @claesdevreese was about to say the same thing
As long as the PostMedia monopoly exists all is not well in the press here
Franรงois Dupenen@claesdevreese Die wereldkaartkaart is nou net geen voorbeeld van vrije meningsuiting. De grens tussen Marokko en de Westelijke Sahara is een amper zichtbare *stippellijn*. Een concessie aan de Marokkaanse dictatuur die een groot deel van dat land bezet.
@pineywoozle โs #3WordNote@claesdevreese Any idea how we rated before the Malignant Mango?
Mary Mazzocco@Pineywoozle @claesdevreese Occupy was when cops decided it was OK if a few journalists got arrested along with the hippies, and itโs been all downhill since then.
@mazz Think its been downhill since Kent State. Still wonder how we rated with the rest of the world, before the Mango Mussolini and his smooth brained muskrat puppeteer. #USPol @claesdevreese
@Pineywoozle @claesdevreese We were 41st in 2016, up from 49th in 2015. We were 36th at the start of the Obama Administration. https://rsf.org/en/united-states-ranks-41st-reporters-without-borders-2016-world-press-freedom-index-0
The United States ranks 41st in Reporters Without Borders 2016 World Press Freedom Index
The United Statesโ ranking improved in Reporters Without Borders (RSF) World Press Freedom Index, published on April 20. At 49th place in 2015, the country now ranks 41st out of 180 countries. This improvement in ranking is, however, quite relative, as in this section of the Index surrounding countriesโ scores are close and small improvements are enough to drive such a positive evolution. This relative improvement by comparison hides overall negative trends.
@mazz Aww, thanks. I was getting around to looking it up lol
Tim Ward โญ๐ช๐บ๐ถ #FBPE@claesdevreese Ah, but, the gammon response would surely be to claim that whoever drew up that list was a woke conspiracy so the list itself is fake news.
Professor_StevensHere in America, all criticism from foreign sources is considered dismissible as envy. Indeed, a lot of my neighbors see such criticism as actually flattering.
Worth noting their details are a bit aged. It says, "The US government continues to pursue the extradition of WikiLeaks publisher Julian Assange, who remains in detention in the United Kingdom." He's in Australia, having pleaded guilty with sentence of time served.
@Professor_Stevens @claesdevreese Envy of what? The guns? The lack of health care? The lack of holidays? And that was before Trump. Which did they have in mind that we should envy, I wonder.
I'm not much acquainted with British culture, so my analogy may not be apt. But here in the States, we have a phenomenon called "the cool kids." These are the ones who cut class, smoke, drive muscle cars, and pick on the weak. Do you have those in the UK? If you do, you've seen the cool kids do some mean thing to someone, while everyone cheers them for it and wishes they were the cool kids too.
Americans think we're the world's cool kids. We think you envy that.
@Professor_Stevens @claesdevreese We do have some drop-outs who misbehave in school because they're too lazy, disconnected, thick, whatever, to try to make anything of themselves, yes. And there may be some who cheer them. But there are many who despise them.
Oh, a lot of us despise the cool kids here too. The cool kids think that proves we're losers.
And that's the point: Americans generally regard foreign criticism of America as evidence that foreigners are dumb.
This does not make any sense, but it keeps us free of worry that anyone else might have a point.
VulcanTourist@Professor_Stevens @TimWardCam @claesdevreese
Not cool kids: "alpha males". Have you had your testosterone smoothie today?
Josef 'Jeff' Sipek@Professor_Stevens @TimWardCam @claesdevreese Hmmโฆ I always thought it was more of the โUS is the best countryโ idea permeating everything so much so that anything contrary to that must be wrong.
A number of the โUS has the best xyzโ ideas seem to be based in reality, but it may be 50+ years out of date reality thatโs been passed down generation to generation leading to more and more absurd claims as time passes by.
@jeffpc @Professor_Stevens @claesdevreese And some of the "best" would now be rephrased as "best at destroying the climate".
Martijn Tonies โ
๐งท@TimWardCam the opening of The Newsroom is still valid. ๐
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WxdaU9AsnU
@Professor_Stevens @claesdevreese
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WxdaU9AsnU
@Professor_Stevens @claesdevreese
The Newsroom Speech by Jeff Daniels (with subtitles)
@mt @TimWardCam @claesdevreese
I'd never seen that before. Thanks.
@Professor_Stevens @TimWardCam @claesdevreese
3 seasons available. ๐๐ป
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1870479/?ref_=ext_shr
3 seasons available. ๐๐ป
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1870479/?ref_=ext_shr
@mt @Professor_Stevens @claesdevreese Hang on ... I've only just realised ...
If MAGA gammons think that America is already the best country in the world, then it's already "great", no?
So why does it need to be made great again?
Flic@TimWardCam @mt @Professor_Stevens @claesdevreese depends if you're measuring its greatness against all those communist countries in Europe (unbeatable) or against a made up version of America from roughly the 50s where racism was ok but minorities liked it and sexism was ok but women were happier at home anyway, and mediocre white men got all the plum jobs and mostly just drank and smoked at the office while their secretary typed their letters.
@TimWardCam @mt @Professor_Stevens @claesdevreese of course Britain has a version of this which is why we had to vote to "take our country back". Turns out it's very difficult to make your country "back" into a thing it never was, though
@Flisty @TimWardCam @mt @claesdevreese
I watched Brexit fairly closely (as much as one can, from over here). I think hearing the phrase "repatriation of power" is when I realized the United States has no monopoly on shameless right-wing bullshit.
Say, how has that worked out? Is there a general mood in the UK about whether or not Brexit was a good idea? Or is it all now just in the past?
@Professor_Stevens @TimWardCam @mt @claesdevreese Very much still a present, unhealed wound. A lot of visceral anger from many (eg me - why was my kids' citizenship taken away because the BBC bookers haven't got enough imagination to get anyone on except Farage, and our prime ministers don't know the difference between binding vs advisory referenda?!). There's been a flurry of 5 year anniversary polls and they pretty much universally support a closer relationship. eg https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51484-how-do-britons-feel-about-brexit-five-years-on
@Flisty @TimWardCam @mt @claesdevreese
Wow, that's a great resource you linked to, thanks!
It's amazing to me that Brexit passed, except that I have come to learn the power of internet propaganda. If I lived in Europe and had the option to travel freely between countries there, I'd never stop riding the rails. Giving that up for some vague notion of reclaiming local autonomy no one ever really lost?
Sad that it happened. Maybe it can be fixed.
@Professor_Stevens @TimWardCam @mt @claesdevreese my personal (well not that personal, look at everything Carole Cadwalladr found) theory is that Putin's interference here was a test run for his interference in the US. Certainly in both cases it's had convenient outcomes for Russia, weakening the institutions that have historically kept him in check.
@Flisty @Professor_Stevens @mt @claesdevreese It is disappointing that the US didn't learn from the UK's fuck-up, yes.
@TimWardCam @Professor_Stevens @mt @claesdevreese I think people learned. Just the "wrong" people. Bush/Gore should have highlighted the dangers of having partisan people in charge of state elections, but ever since then instead of fixing that problem the state orgs seem to have been growing more and more partisan and more willing to purge thousands of voters from rolls without reason. And then there's using computers to vote and to count the votes ... I'm very glad we're luddites here.
@TimWardCam @Flisty @mt @claesdevreese
Remember what I keep telling you: Americans don't LEARN from anyone else. To us, foreign fuck-ups happen because foreigners fuck up
@Professor_Stevens @Flisty @TimWardCam @claesdevreese
What surprised me most, is that basically, it was a quite close referendum (48-52% without looking it up), where the "leave" wasn't plan at all, no-one knew what it was supposed to be.
Instead of saying "too close too call, we're divided, we'll create alternative possible plans and vote on that first", they juts went ahead ... resulting in multiple PMs and lots of idiocy.
@mt @Professor_Stevens @TimWardCam @claesdevreese yep. And it was only an advisory referendum. If it had been a legally binding one the electoral commission would have required a more carefully worded question and a high margin for it to pass. On top of that I think the numbers who would have gone for the "hard Brexit" completely outside all EU treaties is minuscule. Most people would have been happy with "we negotiated and you can have blue passports and curved bananas" tbh
@Professor_Stevens @Flisty @mt @claesdevreese One theory is that Putin managed to persuade some really really dim people that "Ending Freedom Of Movement For Good" would mean that *they* couldn't come here but *we* would still be able to go there.
An alternative view has been expressed by some of Putin's #brexshitters saying "I don't want to live/work/love in any of those countries so I don't see why anyone else should be allowed to".
@TimWardCam @Professor_Stevens @mt @claesdevreese the "Breaking Point" poster is unforgivable. Worse than the bus lie I think.
@Flisty @TimWardCam @mt @claesdevreese
Would you elaborate on those a bit? I don't get the references.
@Professor_Stevens @TimWardCam @mt @claesdevreese this is a pretty good summary of most of the lies told in the campaign. You can see the MAGA parallels in all of it: toxic exceptionalism combined with the idea of "waste" and fearmongering xenophobia. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/final-say-brexit-referendum-lies-boris-johnson-leave-campaign-remain-a8466751.html The "Breaking Point" poster was produced by Nigel Farage (naturally) and was a picture of Syrian refugees queuing at the Turkish border. So, point 4 in that article but also specifically featuring brown faces.
@Professor_Stevens @TimWardCam @mt @claesdevreese tell a lie, it was taken on the Slovenian border. Still beyond awful.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-48244663 If we had a Guantanamo Farage would be trying to send migrants there. We've had the Rwanda policy instead, of course.
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-politics-48244663 If we had a Guantanamo Farage would be trying to send migrants there. We've had the Rwanda policy instead, of course.
dreadfulscribbler@Professor_Stevens @Flisty @TimWardCam @mt @claesdevreese the internet was part of it but the main issue was a large section of the media had spent the last 2 decades blaming europe for ever issue real and imaginary, while most of the rest of the media decide this was "reasonable concerns" to be debated on panel shows etc
the internet did help amplify this a bit, but mostly it came from the conventional media and politicians
the internet did help amplify this a bit, but mostly it came from the conventional media and politicians
@dreadfulscribbler @Professor_Stevens @TimWardCam @mt @claesdevreese yes, Boris Johnson's 'European correspondent' years. The EU was a very convenient scapegoat for anything Westminster wanted (or didn't want) to do.
@Flisty @dreadfulscribbler @Professor_Stevens @TimWardCam @claesdevreese
same here in NL, members of the largest government party voted "for" things in Brussel, and then claimed "we have to do this because Brussel said so" in the national government.
@mt @dreadfulscribbler @Professor_Stevens @TimWardCam @claesdevreese Nigel Farage, our leading Brexit proponent (and friend of Trump) was an MEP on the EU fisheries committee and only attended one meeting, then appealed to fishermen to get the Brexit vote. Proper stitched up.
@Flisty @dreadfulscribbler @Professor_Stevens @TimWardCam @claesdevreese Well, Farage is one of those people you figure everyone knows that he's lying... but apparently not.
@mt @dreadfulscribbler @Professor_Stevens @TimWardCam @claesdevreese I think people will believe something if it's convenient. It was all "vibes" (and racism), but Farage kept giving people convenient, plausible-sounding excuses to trot out as to why it was something else, actually. And then he released that bloody poster.
@Flisty well, for at least 1 person Brexit was successful financially: Farage himself.
@dreadfulscribbler @Professor_Stevens @TimWardCam @claesdevreese
@Professor_Stevens @Flisty @mt @claesdevreese Population surveys show that most people think it's crap. But these are still divided between those who knew it was crap to start with and those who now say "this isn't the #brexshit I voted for" (it is, of course).
@TimWardCam @Professor_Stevens @Flisty @claesdevreese
"this isn't the #brexshit I voted for"
Without a plan that the leave-side was going to following, how can you tell?
@mt @Professor_Stevens @Flisty @claesdevreese The only legally possible #brexsbit was a blind #brexshit, where what you got was what you got. And that's what they knowingly voted for. So *anything* that resulted would have been the #brexshit they voted for.
@TimWardCam "brexit is brexit", I remember.
As useless a phrase as could be.
@mt @TimWardCam @Professor_Stevens @claesdevreese it does demonstrate the value of stupid slogans to shut down conversations though. Anti-Trumpers need one. "Returners" in the UK need one.
@Flisty @TimWardCam @mt @claesdevreese
Yeah, those were the days... That is, one can actually see the appeal in what you describe, to a certain sort of ignorant mind. Add a few lies about lowering prices and great health care at low costs and, well, you get the present situation.
@TimWardCam @mt @claesdevreese
Now there you go, trying to make sense of it all again. Let me save you some time: never try to understand the MAGAts. In particular, never try to reconcile two inconsistent things they say. Reconciliation might be possible when dealing with thinking people. MAGAts are not thinking people. MAGAts are angry people. Angry people make perfect sense to themselves, all the time (because it's all the libs fault, or something). But that's as far as it goes.