Mastodon MigrationGlobal Switch Day. February 1st 2025.
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X to Mastodon, Instagram to Pixelfed, WhatsApp to Signal, Facebook to Friendica, YouTube to PeerTube, TikTok to Loops
Tim Makarios@mastodonmigration
One of these things is not like the others. Signal is a centralized silo. Try the Snikket/Jabber network instead (XMPP protocol).
maple@TMakarios @mastodonmigration Sure, install something that you will have to spend probably a half hour at a minimum figuring out (and if you are not technically proficient it will likely be much more that that) instead of a privacy focused app that only takes maybe five minutes to install tops. Who cares if Signal is "a centralized silo"? 99% of people couldn't care less, they just want something EASY to install and use, even if you are not an ultra geek. And nothing about XMPP is EASY if you are not an ultra geek, or have one in your life that will do the setup for you. (Well, there is one semi-easy path but they require a phone number, just like Signal, so no privacy advantage there).
@maple @mastodonmigration
I imagine most people who want the easy path, and don't care about centralized silos, will probably stick with WhatsApp.
These days, thanks to @snikket_im , there's a pretty simple app for both Android and iOS, with end-to-end encryption on by default. And they've put a lot of work into making it easy to host your own Snikket server, and give easy invitations to your friends to download the app and get an account on your server. There's a paid hosting option, as well as a docker container. Not everyone will be able to self-host a Snikket server, but I don't think you need to be an ultra geek any more.
@TMakarios @mastodonmigration @snikket_im @ghouston @sbb "Not everyone will be able to self-host a Snikket server, but I don't think you need to be an ultra geek any more." Okay, but even if you only need to be a little bit of a geek, WHY would anyone WANT to self-host a #Skikket server? It's still some effort and it still requires you have a domain and it probably still requires you to deal with certificates (which is a real headache if you don't have and don't want a web server). Why not just use #Signal, which is totally FREE and already set up and where they have done all the work for you?
If you go to the Snikket quick-start guide one of the first things it says is:
Requirements
To follow this guide you will need:
A server running Linux that you have SSH or terminal access to
A domain name that you can create subdomains on
Most non-techie types will not have either of those, and even if they have a Linux server they may not want to expose it to the Internet. Or, of course, Snikket provides Snikket Hosting at "$6 USD or less, per month" for up to 10 active users. WHY would I want to spend that when Signal is completely free, and a much larger percentage of people have actually heard of Signal?
And I again want to mention that certificate business. Most #XMPP clients these days either completely refuse to talk to a server that has only a self-signed certificate, or will not allow anything other that the most basic text messaging (no sharing of files or photos - #Gajim is an example of such a client). So unless you want to settle for text messaging only, you have to go through the hassle of obtaining, and then periodically renewing a certificate, probably from Let's Encrypt. And as part of that process they want you to have a web server running that they can access. Yes, there is an alternate method that involves monkeying with DNS records but now you are REALLY getting into the weeds. Most people are either not running a web server, or if they are they are they may not want to make it publicly accessible. This is as much a fault of Let's Encrypt as it is of XMPP clients but it is still a HUGE complication that most people have no desire to deal with
And where is the instructional video that walks you through setting up a Skikket server, for those that might be willing to try but that are visual learners? Is there even a demo video that gives some idea what a running Skikket instance looks like?
I get it, running your own Skikket server is very appealing to certain techie types; to them it's a fun project to set up. But will they still want to be running it five or ten years from now? Signal will probably still be around (though nothing is guaranteed) but a lot of the people who think setting up their own server is fun now will have moved on. And for the 99% of the population that has absolutely zero interest in running their own server, Signal is a much better and totally free alternative that requires very little effort to set up. If they did not require a phone number they'd be perfect (and while they do require a phone number to get started, it doesn't necessarily have to be YOUR cell phone's number, not that that makes it much better).
@maple @mastodonmigration @snikket_im @ghouston @sbb
Okay, but even if you only need to be a little bit of a geek, WHY would anyone WANT to self-host a #Skikket server?
Why would anyone want to self-host any server?
probably still requires you to deal with certificates
I believe the Snikket server software automatically handles obtaining and renewing the necessary certificates.
Why not just use #Signal, which is totally FREE and already set up and where they have done all the work for you?
Why not just use WhatsApp? What advantage does Signal have over WhatsApp?
Most non-techie types will not have either of those
Running a Snikket server is not for most non-techie types. One mildly techie type can run a Snikket server for all their non-techie friends and family.
Most #XMPP clients these days either completely refuse to talk to a server that has only a self-signed certificate
For what it's worth, there is a setting in Snikket Android, at least, to tell it not to trust the operating system's certificate authorities. It notes that if you choose this setting, "All certificates must be manually approved". But if you plan on recommending manually approving self-signed certificates to your non-techie friends, I suspect this is highly likely to reduce their security, not increase it. There's a good reason for apps not to even allow that as an option.
or will not allow anything other that the most basic text messaging (no sharing of files or photos - #Gajim is an example of such a client)
I share files and photos using Gajim. I think maybe this used to require a plugin, but now it's part of Gajim itself, so no special set-up procedure is required.
And where is the instructional video that walks you through setting up a Skikket server, for those that might be willing to try but that are visual learners? Is there even a demo video that gives some idea what a running Skikket instance looks like?
Not that I'm aware of, but they might be open to the suggestion.
I get it, running your own Skikket server is very appealing to certain techie types; to them it's a fun project to set up. But will they still want to be running it five or ten years from now?"
If that's how they chat with their friends and family, then probably, yes.