I hesitate to add to the atmosphere of dread, but Meta's increasingly unfettered acceleration of the kinds of messages that precede genocides is so alarming.
And—how to say this… Avoiding Meta platforms doesn't confer a get-out-of-atrocities-free card. This is why I'm so focused on the need to build broadly appealing, maximally accessible alternative platforms.
I understand, "It's good if the fediverse stays niche," but that's a solution for a tiny number of people.
"People should just think more critically about technology" is not a solution. "Normies just love their evil dopamine and dumb celebs, let them suffer" is not a solution.
"I don't believe people when they say it's unpleasant or confusing because it's not for me" is not a solution.
"But Threads!" is not a solution.
The window for making fedi a robust and substantial part of an alternative pluriverse of networks is not going to be open forever, I don't think.
I am hopeful about the changes at Mastodon. I think IFTAS is doing absolutely crucial work with very little support. I've come around on bridging, as wildly imperfect as it is, as a stop-loss and a way of keeping fedi more viable for more people who are willing to accept the (nebulous) trade-offs.
But also I love the federated model and I want it to be a real option for more people in more places, so it's discouraging to keep hitting "eh screw the normies" when the societal risks are so high.
I wouldn't have posted this knowing I wouldn't be around to look at replies but I have to get offline now for unexpected reasons, so any responses will be slow/in a few days.
The point was, "Niche alternatives will not prevent societal damage wrought by giant corporate platforms knowingly accelerating the worst things humans do to each other, and alt-network advocates better grapple with that *right now*." The rest is commentary.
The trouble is that it is precisely those "broadly appealing, maximally accessible alternative platforms" that are required for spreading messages that precede, e.g., genocide.
There is simply no way how one could invite merely potential victims, and keep perpetrators and their enablers (who start the fire by telling people to not be "snowflakes", those who "won't be silenced by the woke", etc.) out.
I get why one would desire that, but the Fediverse of today rather resembles a Third Reich basement where the persecuted are hiding. Planting signs everywhere to show the "way to the nearest shelter for potential victims of the Nazis" does not look like a reasonable idea, to me.
The first who try to hide are the most vulnerable. Only then, the party members who once thought they'd be safe if they obeyed and looked away, realize that they'll be next.
And they don't learn. They don't show solidarity. They're entering the shelter, loudly complaining why the shelter does not offer all the amenities of the flat they were just running out of, in panic.
I believe that the existence of many different house rules is an advantage of the Fediverse, not a disadvantage. IFTAS is walking a very thin line here. Being a community where moderators exchange experiences and consent on what they feel they can consent on: fine. Becoming an outsourced moderation center that ultimately mandates what is ok, on every instance: not fine.
@katzenberger I don't do super-long comments so I will point you here for my thoughts on refuge and broad connection: https://www.wrecka.ge/against-the-dark-forest/
"Becoming an outsourced moderation center that ultimately mandates what is ok, on every instance: not fine." This isn't what IFTAS does or has ever done. People project so much onto a tiny org building out the tooling moderators have requested, and although scrutiny is essential, I think it would be helpful to avoid making up scenarios from whole cloth.
@valpackett So two things here—one, my mention of IFTAS is a sidenote about many things that could help and has very little to do with my central points.
Two, there's a some lore (non-derrogatory) about IFTAS "pushing" Bad Space or equivalent via FediCheck and as far as I can tell as an earnest semi-outsider, that isn't happening? IFTAS just recommends CARIAD (https://connect.iftas.org/library/iftas-documentation/cariad-policy/) for new admins and has no working relationship with anyone in that whole schism.
@valpackett Anyway—"Collateral damage" should be in quotes because I hate that whole complex. Nothing good can be built on scapegoating.
I have to get completely offline now for a bit for unexpected reasons, please forgive slow responses.
@kissane Thank you for saying this, I wish more people would have this realization.
Too many people here are satisfied with not taking part of problematic socials instead of figuring out how decentralized platforms can be a solution for everyone.
@xgranade @kissane it's worth keeping in mind here that what we are really doing here is figuring out what storytelling structures will shape the next century or two (at least, if we win...)
newspapers were one answer to that; radio was a different one. both were accompanied by significant realignments of how the world worked
that is not an easy thing to do. we should not be surprised that it is hard
Great point. But, two things are true at once. In the short term it's also critical to have alternatives to fascist-controlled, state-aligned social networks that are signalling very strongly that they're eager to participate in atrocities.
@kissane i feel this struggle. ive BEGGED local friends to dump facebook. but im also the president of my HOA (i have stories. weird ones.) and monday's meeting there was one homeowner that was basically ordering the board members to 'get on the facebook group, because thats where everyone is'.
im 110% in favor of getting folks off facebook - the challenge is competing with the convenience. I'm sure this is of absolutely no surprise to you though, heh
@kissane @phil_stevens
Thank you for the great write-up of this. More people need to be aware of this - particularly the fact that Meta is fully aware of the part they played in the genocide even before it reached the point of no return.
The fact that they're intentionally expanding the same atmosphere of malignant neglect that led to genocide across their entire operation should *terrify* people.
@phil_stevens @jargoggles @kissane It's the same deal with Meta's reaction to child predators trying to procure children on the platform who are being exploited.
New Mexico has a lawsuit against Meta on that problem and the details are disturbing in terms of the volume of trafficking going on, the fact that Meta knows how to filter most of it but chooses not to, and the unwillingness of Mark Zuckerberg to consider making any changes that would reduce engagement and therefore ad revenues.
@kissane I just want to turn this thread into a warm blanket and wrap everyone up in it
Spot on word for word no notes
@kissane what are the current best options for a FB alternative? The part I find most useful is local events planning, so that would be part of what I'm looking for.
Someone yesterday posted a list of Fedi places, and I looked them up, and their descriptions were all "open source end to end peer to peer encryption that facilitate communication" which tells me nothing about what it does.
@themizzi I agree with you 100%, but I think I understand the mentality that leads to it. Right now it feels like an exclusive, hip club of real, nice people. It’s appealing to keep it that way.
But it’s myopic, since it would mean most people stay on platforms controlled by autocrats rapidly moving to the right. That’s… quite a steep cost.
they don't want "the normies"
they fear an #eternalseptember
thing is, since this is federation, anyone worried about that can keep their niche communities separate and never encounter "the normies"
and, like erin said, we want "the normies" here
otherwise they get mindwiped by plutocrat agendas on centralized #socialmedia
to do that we have to make the process of getting into the #fediverse dead simple
dead. simple.
even picking a server is a step too high for many
⬆️ @kissane >> I understand, "It's good if the #fediverse stays niche," but that's a solution for a tiny number of people.
@benroyce >> they don't want "the normies"… even picking a server is a step too high for many
👍
Even the dichotomy between #techies and #normies is facile, disrespectful, and uninviting. We need everybody to feel welcome and not force them to make choices like picking a server.
Is it possible to automatically select a sensible default and allow easy migration?
@90sScriptKiddiw @themizzi @kissane
Utterly disagree
With an influx moderation difficulties increase, yes. So we get the resources to scale along with the challenges. It's not impossible
And like you say if a server can't keep up we wall it off, people flee, and it sinks under the weight of bots and trolls
That's fine
Your other rationale is a personal rationale not a rationale for everyone
So make your own archipelago of servers
Don't demand the whole fediverse comply with your standards
@benroyce @90sScriptKiddiw @themizzi @kissane
Those are the two opposing worldviews, aren't they? Keep it local and community-based and hope for the best re: moderation vs. try to be welcoming and deal with scaling up to deal with challenges.
I think there needs to be a strong agreed-upon code of conduct for the main federation that's not like Threads in that people aren't allowed to be called objects, or mentally ill, or otherwise bullied or ridiculed or made to feel unwelcome.
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