RalfMaximusDec 30, 2024

@wesley

You are absolutely right! But it turns out, when self-driving cars behave like careful drivers, obeying every rule? It pisses off other drivers. Like, imagine following the most timid student driver ever.

So now they're trying to emulate "real" drivers, with the uh, expected results.

Not defending this AT ALL, but that's what's happening.

@BenRossTransit

Show threadEleanor Saitta
@ralfmaximus
It turns out that driving is a social activity in a complex social environment, and it's impossible to do well without understanding social cues and a theory of mind for other drivers. I don't expect the situation to get better any time soon.
@wesley @BenRossTransit
Dec 30, 2024 at 7:11pmWeb
Show threadAvi Rappoport (avirr)Dec 31, 2024
@BenRossTransit @dymaxion @ralfmaximus @wesley It was hard to teach my kid, she thought they would just obey the rules.
Show threadEleanor SaittaDec 31, 2024
@avirr
Yeah, this is literally the kind of thing I mean — "oh, that's a kid who looks pretty uncertain, I'll be extra-careful to slow down early enough and stop with enough room that they're not confused". You're never going to encode that in one of these systems, and even if you tried, they cannot understand emotional state. Not are most of these kind of rules and courtesies things that you can even extract as behavior in a meaningful way.
@BenRossTransit @ralfmaximus @wesley
Show threadlike jam or bootlacesDec 31, 2024

@avirr

imagine my frustration, and in some cases heartache, that various pets have never learned to model the mind of drivers

it's also why I take up as much space as I feel safe doing at crosswalks--the onus should absolutely be on the operators.

If that's too much (and I think it is!) then we should do things differently (I think we should!).

@dymaxion @BenRossTransit @ralfmaximus @wesley

Show threadEleanor SaittaDec 31, 2024
@idlestate
Yeah, I'm not talking about how things should work, just about the requirements of hitting the current accepted standard
@avirr @BenRossTransit @ralfmaximus @wesley
Show threadlike jam or bootlacesDec 31, 2024

@dymaxion

Then, I guess, in those terms I'm talking about how the acceptance of standards is constantly being negotiated locally, and that the challenge comes less from failing to reach a standard and more from supposing there is any single one, let alone that it is coincident to codified traffic law.

@avirr @BenRossTransit @ralfmaximus @wesley

Show threadEleanor SaittaDec 31, 2024
@idlestate
Yes, definitely. At least as many standards as drivers, pedestrians, and cyclists.
@avirr @BenRossTransit @ralfmaximus @wesley