Mastodawn

Emeritus Prof Christopher May

If global temperature levels are the easiest way of understanding the pace & seriousness of climate change, then its pretty clear we've not been dong a good job of trying to arrest global warning.

Already weather has become increasingly erratic & the effects of climate change are ever more obvious... looking at the incline on this graph can only lead you to conclude that we are not doing anything like enough!

The problem is our political leaders see it otherwise...

#climate #GlobalWarming

Shaman Nov 26, 2024

@ChrisMayLA6 let's face it, our political leaders, at least in democracies, are our leaders because we elected them.
The American voter elected a felon, who says that #ClimateChange is a hoax, but believes that legal immigrants from Haiti eat cats and dogs and are illegally in the US. This is what just was elected ... Don't tell me that it's politicians who don't take decisive action against the looming #ClimateBreakdown. It's the majority of voters who think cheaper groceries and white supremacy are worth electing a climate denying, demented, pathological liar and con man into the White House. That is who is not doing nearly enough #WeThePeople ...

Caesar Nov 26, 2024

@RulesBuster @ChrisMayLA6 Well, roughly a third voted for him. And another third didn't care. But that does mean a third voted against him.
In the UK likewise, although Labour won a "landslide", they did so with a near record low number of votes.
So it's not true for everyone that their leaders are who they voted for. In fact it's a characteristic of many democracies that generally *most* people get the leader they didn't vote for.

Caesar Nov 26, 2024

@RulesBuster @ChrisMayLA6 (It's a bit different in countries like France which have run-off elections, combine that with compulsory voting like they have in Brazil or Australia and you could argue that at least half of people would get the leader they'd voted for, though in practice the result doesn't seem much better…)

Shaman Nov 27, 2024

@caesar @ChrisMayLA6 true that only minorities vote for leaders that then win elections. However, it still means that leaders are duly elected. It is also not clear, if the people who don't actively vote would actually change the outcome. Isn't it more likely that people not voting would follow the existing voting patterns?
Regardless, especially on the topic of the #ClimateCrisis there is no indication that a candidate, who is strong on environmental protection and willing to take decisive action against CO2 polluters will stand any chance winning an election.
So my point is that it is #UsThePeople, who are as a group overwhelmingly unwilling to change or aggressively fight the #ClimatCrisis.

Emeritus Prof Christopher May Nov 27, 2024

@RulesBuster @caesar

Given the democracy is for the most part voting against rather than for.... I think the final point, that we are 'are as a group overwhelmingly unwilling to change or aggressively fight the #ClimatCrisis' is true for the majority - the small minority prepared to fight are viewed either sympathetically, but not really positively supported or are vilified.

So in that sense while I'd like to differ with your initial point, I find it hard to do so convincingly.

Mx Verda Nov 27, 2024

@ChrisMayLA6 @RulesBuster @caesar

They may be restricted from voting (gerrymandering / redlining, voter suppression),
voting may be inaccessible to them (caring responsibilities, too expensive to reach station, can’t afford time off work, can’t get time off work at all),
they may fully intend to but forget or be distracted (ADHD, caring responsibilities again, parenting, work, extreme weather), etc.

All these (or none) can still be relevant for the people who don’t vote.
I would find it unlikely that they would act in indistinguishable patterns since they are *already* behaving in a different way.

But I’m not a humanities / social scientist and I’m very tired. So I’m probably missing something.

[insert twXtter rant about everyone being stupid or something]

Emeritus Prof Christopher May Nov 27, 2024

@MxVerda @RulesBuster @caesar

yes, voter disengagement (for whatever reasons) is also going to be part of the issue

Paul 💙 28 💔 💚Nov 27, 2024

@caesar @RulesBuster @ChrisMayLA6

In the UK it was more a case of low voting.. traditional Labour voters .. Voted.. and the Traditional Tory voter not wanting to vote for people who have been inept for 14 years. So didn't vote

In the US.. It was Low voting... traditional Republican voters ., voted... Traditional Democratic voters couldn't bring themselves to go vote for a black woman. So didn't vote

The non voters couldn't see how either party would improve their situation... So why bother

Emeritus Prof Christopher May Nov 27, 2024

@PGBeattie @caesar @RulesBuster

Which in a sense, is a form of voting against.... no candidates encourage me to vote for, so I'll absent myself as a vote against?

Paul 💙 28 💔 💚Nov 27, 2024

@ChrisMayLA6 @caesar @RulesBuster

It's all semantics.... Not voting in lots of cases is not done as a protest... But as apathy

Politics is not for me as regardless of what happens in Government ...my live goes on without change without hope... So why bother

Bidens and Harris message of excellent growth and employment figures was met with "but not for me"

Shaman Nov 27, 2024

@PGBeattie @ChrisMayLA6 @caesar we'll see if that bit about "nothing changes for me that's why I don't vote" is going to stay true in the next couple of years. But then why bother about your future until it happens...
#FascismAffectsEveryone #VotingMatters #EducationMatters #DonotCareUntilTooLate

Steve's Place Nov 26, 2024

@ChrisMayLA6 It's never our leaders' fault, so it must be ours. We have failed to provide them with battery technology sufficient to keep tanks on battlefields, and to keep bombers and fighter jets aloft for long sorties.

[A lengthy rant once slept here.]

To stop the rise, I think we must first stop the wars. I just don't think we are capable of living in peace. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I've met us.

Mx Verda Nov 27, 2024

@ChrisMayLA6 wtf happened / started to have obvious effects in the 1970s, man?

Emeritus Prof Christopher May Nov 27, 2024

Its an interesting Q., but my money would be on the expansion of car ownership across the developed world & the beginning of the decline of public transport.... dating from the mid-60s, but really starting to accelerate in the 1970s?

Epistatacadam Nov 27, 2024

@ChrisMayLA6 their income is dependent now & in future on donations from those who profit from the status quo.
Therefore we need to make corporate political donations illegal with all directors of any company that does bankrupt with all their family assets seized by the exchequer.
Companies that employ ex ministers, are forbidden from government contracts or consultations for 10 years, MPs for 5 years.
Personal donations limited to median household monthly income/term.

Adam Jacobs 🇺🇦Nov 27, 2024

@epistatacadam @ChrisMayLA6 That would be splendid. But the only people who can make things illegal is politicians, and I can't see them voting to cut off their main source of income.

Nothing will change until voters prioritise voting for anti-corruption candidates.

Epistatacadam Nov 27, 2024

@statsguy @ChrisMayLA6 yup it's up to us to pressure our current MPs and to be prepared to vote for small parties. Whilst the big two are the only game in town, the Westmonster elite and their paymasters don't worry about those outside the M25.