This is persuasion done correctly. “I understand how you are feeling. Israel’s crimes and US support should be important to all of us. You aren’t wrong to feel like you do, and I sympathize. That being said, listen to why it’s important to participate.” No insults, readily apparent empathy, and a sound argument.

People have been doing exactly that since back when we were trying to somehow get Biden to win.

The message isn’t the thing. It is the speaker. And this is why celebrity endorsements matter.

I get what you are saying, but I respectfully disagree that people have largely been this reasonable. By writing “this is how it’s done correctly, with respect and logic” I’m juxtaposing Sen. Sander’s approach vs. “vote with us or else you’re -insert insult here-” posts, comments, and memes. I’ve seen tons of attempts to dehumanize or discredit critics of Biden/Harris/Dems on Lemmy and other platforms. You are right that some have always tried to be empathetic and civil.

I agree high-profile endorsements matter. That bugs me a little bit because I think arguments should succeed or fail on their own merits and not reputation. But I know I’m a consciously “have no heroes” person because I believe everyone is fallible. I definitely have people I respect a lot, but no one that I’ll agree with all the time.

Generally speaking, people AREN’T saying “vote with us or else you’re a piece of shit” to anyone who is (good faith) complaining about Biden’s horrendous record on genocide and Kamala being unlikely to be much better. We almost always point out "Yeah… it sucks. But do you think trump will be any better? and get responses along the lines of “WELL I WON’T VOTE FOR GENOCIDE!! THAT IS MY LINE!!!”

It has nothing to do with the way the message was said and pretending otherwise is an active insult to everyone who gives a shit.

The only reason this MIGHT make a dent is because it is Bernie Sanders. The guy who opened a lot of people’s minds to the reality that there is something better than late stage capitalism and beltway liberals.

people AREN’T saying “vote with us or else you’re a piece of shit”

Lemmy is doing precisely this, in this very thread, and has been doing this in literally every thread where this comes up since 2023. The issue that needs to be addressed is whether or not “Trump worse” is working as a strategy. What Bernie is saying here isn’t new, and maybe he’s saying it better, or its better coming from him than other surrogates. ymmv. I would argue you’ve already captured all the votes you can get using this approach. Now what about the votes you aren’t getting with the argument “Trump worse”?

I think without a pivot on this Harris is leaving the easiest 1-3% of voters to get on the table. And they’ve been there since the last day of the convention, where Harris conveniently showed Arab-americans the exit rather than the podium. Its a small group, but its more than sufficient to be a deal breaker in this election. You can’t force them to go for Harris, and no amount of telling them they have to has changed their minds.

Going forwards, how do you get these voters to vote for Harris?

I am an AAPI. I already know no candidate gives a shit about me. Hell, it says something when frigging Yang seemed palatable for like… five minutes. And with the way geopolitics is shaking up? If you thought the anti-asian hate was bad during the lockdown parts of COVID, just wait until we are in a cold war gone lukewarm against china like we are with russia.

And that is why a lot of AAPI folk kind of go right wing. They, like their parents, decide it is easier to try to ingratiate themselves wit hteh white supremacists than to show solidarity. But the rest of us? We rapidly learn that there IS no solidarity with us because we are “model minorities” and get told to shut the fuck up when more important minorities are being discriminated against.

But also? That isn’t the only issue. There are AAPI women and AAPI lgbtq+ folk and so forth. And thus, you actually look at the issues and vote in your interests even if neither party really gives a shit. Because you have more than one issue (and, even that, one party is still a lot less shitty)

So if “Well… neither is great but one is a whole lot worse in these very concrete ways” isn’t working?

You get a celebrity influencer to say it. Like Sanders.

We rapidly learn that there IS no solidarity with us because we are “model minorities” and get told to shut the fuck up when more important minorities are being discriminated against.

Its like the trolley problem exemplified. Blue-dog democrats be like “well someone needs to get crushed under the weight of this thing”.

Yes…that’s the point of the trolley problem. Someone does get crushed.

The crushing is the point, yes.

And you get to pick how much crushing happens.

And you get to pick how much crushing happens.

Which sounds like gloating from people who saw all the people tied to one set of tracks and used it as an excuse to tie that one guy to the other track.

And that is NOT how the trolley problem works. None of us tied anyone to the tracks. There’s no one else. There’s just people on the tracks, and a trolley, and a lever, and you. All of the set-up happened before you got there. You are only able to make a decision about the lever.

And that is NOT how the trolley problem works.

That’s because it’s an abstract thought experiment. Here in concrete reality, Democratic politicians are willingly selling weapons to a genocidal apartheid regime, and refuse to stop. They could untie the guy any time they want, but are super worried that the guy who tied everyone else to the other set of tracks might not like them.

Doesn’t matter. All YOU can do is pull the lever, or not. You can’t change who’s on the track. You can’t remove the trolley. You can’t untie the people or lift up the tracks. In this sense, the trolley problem is almost a 1-for-1 representation of voting (in a swing state, at least). You can pull the lever, or not. Those are your options.

Doesn’t matter.

To people who get what they want no matter the state of the lever.

I voted for Harris. I’m not going to proclaim that your genocide is the moral genocide just because you demand that I do.

So you pulled the lever. End of thought experiment.

Yay! You made it!

I’d tell you to not be condescending but you will never be anything else.

In your case, it’s because you often pretend to be dumber than you actually are, so I’m just playing along.