CamAug 29, 2024
Electronic Frontier Foundation
Pavel Durov can’t be held legally responsible for what happens in Telegram users’ E2EE direct chats, EFF’s @evacide told DW News. And arresting a CEO for content moderation practices could threaten millions of users’ free speech and privacy rights. https://youtu.be/NlHGfQyL3BM?feature=shared
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Aug 29, 2024 at 6:48pmWeb
Show threadChiefGyk3DAug 29, 2024

@eff @evacide except it's not just what's in E2EE direct chats. There are so many groups you could join that weren't really that secretive with scams, frauds, and other problematic content. If I recall you can have groups as large as 200K in Telegram.

So yes in so far as End to End Encrypted Chats I agree, but a lot of that content wasn't as private as many would think.

Update: I also think it's worthwhile noting Telegram doesn't encrypt chat by default

Show threadcubeAug 29, 2024
@chiefgyk3d @eff @evacide In fact, he is also being charged for not declaring the encryption algorithm to the French government....
Show threadevacideAug 29, 2024
@cube @chiefgyk3d @eff I cover both of these points in the three appearances I have done on DW in the last three days.
Show threadcubeAug 30, 2024
@evacide @chiefgyk3d @eff I saw the full interview later, the mastodon post answers were a bit unfair, as you expressly made a difference between public groups and secret chats. Thank you for your work at EFF !
Show threadRyan Castellucci (they/them) Aug 29, 2024
@eff @evacide People use E2EE chat on Telegram?
Show threadDanie van der MerweAug 29, 2024
@eff only secret chats are E2EE, normal direct chats are client-server encryption only. But as far as I remember Telegram's servers have those chats encrypted and operators do not have the decryption keys available to them, so they can't just go looking at people's private chats.
Show threadTxopi 🇵🇸Aug 29, 2024
@danie10 @eff in Telegram group chats, channels, etc. are not encrypted. Direct messages neither, unless you specifically create a "secret chat" (few people do that).
Show threadDanie van der MerweAug 29, 2024
@txopi
Wired explains it here at https://www.wired.com/story/telegram-encryption-end-to-end-features/. It's true to say it is not encrypted at all. It us not E2EE yes, and it can be decrypted by Telegram on the server side.
@eff
Switched to Telegram? You need to know this about its encryption

Telegram encrypts all your chats but doesn’t offer the same level of protection as Signal or WhatsApp by default

WIRED
Show threadAlvaroAug 29, 2024
@eff @evacide How is arresting a CEO a threat to millions of people?
Show threadcubeAug 29, 2024
@alvaro @eff @evacide By threatening their ability to freely communicate. Telegram is one of the last relatively free platforms in Russia.
Show threadAlvaroAug 29, 2024
@cube @eff @evacide that sounds like quite a non sequitur. The charges are basically because they haven't done much about CSAM and other illicit communications.
Show threadcubeAug 30, 2024

@alvaro @eff @evacide I highly doubt they "haven't done much" against CSAM, they would already have been banned if that was the case. You have to remember, Telegram has >900 million users, so abuse will happen.

I do think they didn't really care about low-level crime : drug trafficking, etc.

If Telegram was so bad in giving a platform to criminals, why no other (AFAIK) EU countries put a mandate of arrest ?

Anyway, the justice will do it's work.

Show threadAlvaroAug 30, 2024
@cube @eff @evacide Yeah, I don't know and neither do you, but the argument "they haven't been banned before" is not a good one.

As you say, the justice will work (hopefully) but what really bothers me is the EFF defending extravagant billionaires, as if they were our saviors.
Show threadcubeSep 22, 2024
@alvaro @eff @evacide I really don't think they are doing this.
Show threadS.P.ZeidlerAug 29, 2024
@eff @evacide under US law or under French and EU law? "Can't" is a pretty large claim here.
Show threadel_haych2024Aug 29, 2024
@eff @evacide this is weaponising free speech, the same dirty tactics done by people like Elon Musk and Andrew Tate.
Show threadSpaceLifeFormAug 29, 2024

@eff @evacide

The indirect attacks on Section 230 continue.

Show threadevacideAug 30, 2024
@SpaceLifeForm @eff There is no section 230 in France. Also, Telegram is not a US company.
Show threadSpaceLifeFormAug 30, 2024

@evacide @eff

Totally agree. The attacks are indirect. Long term.

Precedent for the corrupt.

Show threadevacideAug 30, 2024
@SpaceLifeForm @eff This is a fight over content moderation and data sovereignty in general, not a fight about CDA 230 in any way.
Show threadSpaceLifeFormAug 30, 2024

@evacide @eff

I hope that you are correct. But, I have doubts.

I have been watching creeping fascism for decades.

Show threadolderAug 30, 2024
@SpaceLifeForm
Sure. France has no agency. Everything is about the US, right?
@evacide @eff
Show threadSpaceLifeFormAug 30, 2024

@older @evacide @eff

I am not sure what you are getting at.

But, if this is a transnational investigation, then i am sure that the US is aware of it even if the US was not driving it.

My gut says:

#MoneyLaundering

Show threadSpaceLifeFormAug 29, 2024

@eff @evacide

Do not trust preview to function as expected.