Jarrett WalkerIf there are going to be climate-justified subsidies for owning electric cars, there should be subsidies for not owning cars at all.
Chu 朱The first would be free public transit!
And I want a subsidy for an e bike!
CyclesBecauseSummerIsComing😀@chu @humantransit any kind of bike should be subsidized. But I would settle for a tax rebate of €2000/ yr for any person over 16 that does not own a car.
o_andras@chu @humantransit IMO vastly more important than being free/low-cost, the service's quality should justify itself to the users -- availability and quality also drive demand! Many people choose to drive a car because public transport is unreliable or don't go where they need/want to go.
Mike Taylor 🦕@o_andras @chu @humantransit Yes. This, 100%. For most destinations in the UK, it's cheaper for me to drive than to take a train, even if I'm alone. When there are two or more of us, it's not even close. Driving is also much more reliable.
I want that fixed, and I'm prepared to pay more tax to make it happen.
In Canada, there's a transit penalty. It takes longer, is not reliable, and costs a fortune.
Taking the train to Ottawa from Toronto cost me $700 for my family of four last year. It would have been cheaper to rent a car.
But my federal government insists they are the most pro environment party. My prime minister marched with Greta Thunberg no less! (Then approved an off shore oil well within weeks).
Binh ATL@bdatlrides @o_andras @chu @humantransit Except that the promise of public transport really is all three — price through economies of scale, speed through use of infrastructure better than regular roads (bus lanes, train tracks); ease of use is where where is some justification for falling down, but things like the London tube show it can be done right.
@o_andras @mike @chu @humantransit For the area of Switzerland I visited, which is near Zug, from what I recall, it was ease of use and price?
@bdatlrides @mike @chu @humantransit unexpected! I was in Genève and would classify as ease-of-use + speed, at least. I don't know about price because tourists staying in licenced lodging get a free pass for the duration of the stay (although it's 100% an honor system so...)
@o_andras @bdatlrides @mike @humantransit
I don't know where reliability fits into the equation but I think it's even more important than speed. I can handle the trip being an extra 20 minutes as long as I know it's coming
@chu @o_andras @mike @humantransit Good point... then would reliability translate into overall travel time/speed?
@bdatlrides @o_andras @mike @humantransit
Not sure. But I'll give you an example. In Switzerland I took something called a "post bus" to a middle of nowhere town. It was an hourly bus, but you could set your watch to it.
Frequency and reliability matter so much.
If I could wasn't on vacation, hourly won't do. That's too much bending my life and day around. But the reliability made me rethink especially considering how far it was from anything. In Toronto, you often wait 20 minutes for the bus that says 10. People drive because it's subsidize compared to transit.
Why take transit when it's cheaper to park the car?
So it's not just a matter of price either. It's price relative to other options. Nobody takes transit as a family. It'll run as much as $28 Cdn for four when parking is often free.
Ehproque has moved@chu @humantransit I'm ok with no subsidy, what I need is a path to do my errands on that isn't shared with two ton masses of metal driven by tired and stressed people