Self-indulgent rant:
One reason why IMO, the case against "AI" is as cut and dried as the case against cryptocoins is that shutting those two sectors down through government action would immediately solve the household energy transition for Iceland, for example
The maths is fairly straightforward: switching personal transportation over to electricity here would roughly double household power consumption (give or take, with the assumption that current plans to improve public transport pan out)
We don't have that much excess power generation. We even have to occasionally limit power delivery to heavy users
Increasing power generation that much requires tough choices: we'd have to ruin the environment some way. We just don't have that many locations left for hydro or geothermal. Most locations that remain are popular tourist sites—destroying them would be bad for the economy—important ecosystems, or would require improvements to the grid that nobody seems to be willing to pay for
However, datacentres in Iceland are almost exclusively used for "AI" or crypto. You can't buy regular hosting in these centres for love or money. If you buy hosting in Iceland, odds are that the rack is in an office building in Reykjavík somewhere, not a data centre
And those data centres use more power than Icelandic households combined
But, instead, the plan is currently to destroy big parts of places like Þjórsárdalur valley, one of the most green and vibrant ecosystems in Iceland
That’s one of the reasons why I take it personally when people use “AI” models and cryptocoins. You are being complicit in creating the demand that is threatening to directly destroy the environment I live in. None of this shit would be happening if there wasn't demand so I absolutely do blame you, personally, if you are a regular user of either of these things
There’s a cost to these tools and you’re pushing it onto others like an asshole
So, fuck you and the AI-generated horse you rode in on
Bringing up the example of cars, compared to the energy consumption and environmental impact of the trains and trolleys they displaced ...
That's not the flex you think it is. Quite the opposite.
Okay, but ... relevance?
The discussion about AI and crypto data centers in Iceland was about the energy consumption and environmental impact, with a focus on the effect on transportation electrification.
There was no mention of workers or worker displacement.
The ecosystem that sustains us has limits. So too does human stupidity: when the ecosystem collapses, so do we.
@chrisamoody @baldur looking at the current state of environmental destruction, I'm inclined to agree with the hypothetical people protesting new tools in car manufacture.
In other words, you're using the existing status quo, which is literally in the process of rendering the planet uninhabitable, as a defense of something that's even more obviously destructive to the planet.
@baldur I am on your side and this is a growing bone of contention for me with a project I am involved with.
The project is not yet using AI and doing so seems quite a way off, but the intent is to use it ‘for good’. I increasingly think there cannot be a net good, but there is so much else the project is trying to achieve that is laudable.
So… I can see an impasse coming
@baldur and the abomination of AI is coming to Apple Phones soon in iOS 18.
If you have an Apple Phone the important bit is in the last paragraph:
"Q. Can I opt out?
A. Yes, you have to toggle on Apple Intelligence in Settings. So whether you are concerned about data privacy or sceptical about the accuracy or usefulness of these features, you are not obliged to use them."
Burn. The. Servers.
I think there's another problem here too. We often look at new #energy hogs at cry foul, but the truth is large #stock #exchanges use almost as much needless energy per user and probably way more in the round because their use is near ubiquitous. But we turn a blind eye because we're already dependent on them.
The conflation of AI models and cryptocurrency is something I disagree with but would like to put to the side.
Where do you differentiate AI models from other forms of computing?
For example, original computers which demanded huge amounts of power and environmental resources and maintenance staff were built to do computing, something we could do manually, but slower.
I use AI for situations where one 10-30 second computing request would save me (the human) 2-6 hours, or I might not have the human resources to do at all due to limitations.
I consider it an assistive technology. Do you disagree on this?
If you agree it's assistive, then where is the line of acceptable computing and unacceptable computing?
This should be the same regardless of whether it's AI or not, right?
@serge @baldur maybe it's not a matter of using or not using an assitive technology (cryptocoins definitly are not that and should be prohibited), but owning the consumption that using this technology incurs locally.
Instead of outsourcing LLMs to some datacenter, hiding their operating costs and externalities from you, you could run the LLMs locally, using an app like jan.ai?=
@csdumm
Yes, but I assume that when the person making this statement is Baldur, he already knows this and is taking this into his moral calculation.
⬆️
https://toot.cafe/@baldur/113017028974375684
https://toot.cafe/@baldur/113017028994277753
Self-indulgent rant: One reason why IMO, the case against "AI" is as cut and dried as the case against cryptocoins is that shutting those two sectors down through government action would immediately solve the household energy transition for Iceland, for example The maths is fairly straightforward: switching personal transportation over to electricity here would roughly double household power consumption (give or take, with the assumption that current plans to improve public transport pan out)
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