starmanAnon prefers Frameworks over Thinkpads
Ludwig van BeethovenActually rational take?? Holy hell
MikinaThis is the first time I’m hearing about Framework. Is it worth it? I’m looking for a new laptop anyway
If you’ve got the cash to spare, they just about kick the shit out of absolutely everything on the market, and are consumer repairable to boot.
I like mine a lot but as the other commenter alluded too they’re pretty pricey but for the 13inch one I think it’s the best laptop on the market at that size at the moment.
DaveI guess it depends what you value. I have a Framework 13, first generation. I run Linux on it and really enjoyed putting it together myself (I ordered the DIY option).
I absolutely love their ports. You swap in the ports you want. I normally run a USB C on either side (so I can charge from either side) plus a USB A on each side (the Framework 13 has two slots each side, I think the 16 might have 3 each side?). But I also have HDMI, Display Port, and micro SD in case I need them. I can hot swap them in.
Their guides are awesome. I broke a screen and was able to order another and replace it myself following their guide. When the time comes (probably in the next year or so) I’m planning on upgrading. A bit like a desktop, since it’s been a few years it means replacing the motherboard (what they call the mainboard) and RAM since technology moves on. I"m pretty sure like all laptops the CPU is fixed to the mainboard, but you can upgrade RAM or storage without replacing the whole guts (assuming same slot type). In fact you can buy without some pieces and reuse stuff you have or buy from elsewhere to save some money.
When I eventually do it I’m planning on strapping the old mainboard to the back of my TV as a HTPC (replacing the old dying laptop currently there).
There are plenty of downsides. No touchscreen. I wish the screen was a little brighter, it’s not bad but could be better (might be better with later models?). I replaced the hinges with their more resistant ones but the screen still moves if I carry it around with the screen open (not sure if it’s still an issue on newer models).
I really value the idea of repairability and upgradeability. When I was younger you could swap a bigger harddrive or RAM into a laptop if you had a screwdriver (and sometimes even without), and repairing other parts was also possible. These days you’re more likely to find the whole thing glued together. Framework lets you do your own repairs, and has guides to walk you through every step.
There are probably more downsides, but I do love it and would buy another in a heartbeat. But if there are special things you need then carefully check. For example last I checked they did not have a full size SD card reader module available (though of course you can use a regular external one if you really need to).
The biggest one that I’m glad to never have to worry about:
User replaceable battery
You can even put a bigger battery in down the line if you wish. No planned obsolescence.
I mean, all the dell business laptops I’ve purchased have a replaceable battery. You just have to unscrew the bottom panel to do it. But no, they don’t have a swappable battery.
My experience with laptops in recent years is that having a replaceable battery is the exception.
Yes! I don’t really rely on the battery that much but it’s nice to know I could buy a bigger one in the future.
Worth pointing out it’s not swappable, and many people have found the battery life a little lacking.
itsmectThe SD expansion card is “comming soon” according to their store page, and they showed prototypes that looked close to production on their youtube channel. My best guess is release in Q4
Yeah their youtube has a video talking about their struggles with getting a commonly available full size SD card reader to fit into one of their expansion cards. I have an external reader I inherited from somewhere so I’m not too worried.
I love it, it’s amazing.
I do have the first generation which has a battery drain issue, which has since been fixed.
I always use my hardware for a looong time, but I look forward to only having to replace the main mobo and not the screen or keyboard when I do need an upgrade.
And even when you want to replace your main board, you can take the old one, 3D print or buy this Cooler Master case, and turn it into a relatively powerful server or HTPC or K8s node or whatever.
Best laptop I’ve had so far, but they’re quite expensive for their performance tier. The expectation is that you’d never replace it, so theoretically the cost pays itself off over time, but that would assume that you are able and willing to do that sort of long term maintenance.
Basically, I would only recommend it if you were a tinkerer.
I disagree on the comment about cost disparity. Spec’d equivalently, even the Framework 16 (without GPU) is no more expensive than the smaller ThinkPad X1 Carbon. The more comparative Framework 13 even less so.
The modular ports (and GPU on the 16) are a nice bonus, but I agree that the largest attraction is for the tinkerer.
I think the fact that it is easily upgradable makes it a clear winner on the merits alone.
I did a price comparison three years ago when I was exploring laptops and the price for a Framework was really high. Like it was cheaper to buy a used laptop every three years for a decade before I break even on a Framework high.
I’m not knocking it at all. It just the cost is so high, and they don’t have the means to produce where the price is at a consumer level.
Agreed. If you buy the minimum spec bare bones version and get RAM and NVME from a third party, the price is somewhat comparative to other MRSPs. If you go for a higher spec or compare to sales prices instead of MSRP you pay up to 50% premium according to my research.
If you however factor in downtime of a broken and non-repairable device, plus the time spend on setting up a replacement, the framework can easily compete if your setup is complex.
if you’re willing to pay a bit extra for futureproofing your setup, then absolutely.
I own two (work and personal) 13" framework, and they are great little machines.
Some people don’t like the size (or the 3:2 ratio screen), but I think it’s perfect
Is the youtuber Investor Linus (tech tips)? If so, what are his controversial politics?
I guess the generous amount of coverage and media attention Framework gets from their videos
WIZARD POPE💫Well they do disclose their investment but I dont think it is what they were referencing. It makes sense for them to cover as they have a stake in the company doing wrll.
Calling adblockers piracy is one i remember
He also said that he would consider Linus Media Group unionizing a “personal failure,” which is about as good as you could typically expect from a business owner but still not great.
Giving him the benefit of the doubt, he probably meant that if a business owner treats his employees well, there shouldnt be a need to unionize. But that would mean he fundamentally misunderstands what a union is and why you want one. I dont know which is worse.
TonyOstrichYour benefit of the doubt assumption is correct. He has explained it in detail a couple of times. Like you I find it unfortunate and frustrating.
Still, based on some of the numbers they have talked about their employee retention is very good and considering how talented many of the people who work for him are, if it were a shitty place to work that could likely easily find work elsewhere. I have a number of criticisms of Linus and his ADHD snap judgments or out of touch privileged takes, but he still strikes me as someone that does genuinely want to do the right thing that got insanely lucky and had to adapt to a crazy situation no random person off thee street would ever be that prepared before.
FireTowerHis POV on that from what I could tell was that he didn’t want a union to be necessary. He wasn’t opposed to the benefits one would provide, he just wanted to have a workplace where people didn’t need to unionize just to get those benefits.
bdonvrAlthough he admits to using one. Still a stupid take but he’s not like, adamantly anti-adblocker.
Broke: adblockers are like piracy, which is bad.
Woke: adblockers are like piracy, which is based.
DumbkidHe also admits to pirating games and media. So like I think I agree, adblockers are a way to access things without “paying”. Think people thought he was saying piracy like it was a bad thing. But I think he was just being literal.
CatLikeLemmingIn essence what he said was “know what you’re doing” from what I can tell. No major judgement of the behavior, but instead just a notice that one should be aware of their actions.
Personally I’d love if more sites just added a ko-fi link or similar. You made good stuff? Here’s some money I can spare, and if I get even more use out of your content in the future, I’ll pay you a little more then.
He regularly talks about how much he pirates on the wan show. He’s very pro piracy
Ad lockers are piracy though. Calling something piracy isn’t making any moral judgements
ddittyNot to be an Internet pedant, but technically most definitions of Internet piracy describe it as illegally copying and distributing copyrighted content. Adblockers aren’t doing either, they’re just hiding UI elements and letting you access content your browser has already fetched, right from the original source
JumutaI don’t support ltt but that’s the weakest (most cope least knowledgeable) argument there is honestly
like that makes sense because by adblocking you are basically receiving “paid” content for “free” (i put quotes bc the site isn’t getting paid unless you click but whatever)
he elaborates to say that he isn’t criticising it, just drawing an analogue, and that he uses one himself iirc
ublock origin+sponsorblock <3 btw
I wish more places had the resources to make an equivalent to ltt labs. There’s still rtings which is pretty darn good though.
Last year, the social media manager left and accused LTT of being a toxic workplace with sexual harassment. They were also started to favor quantity of content over quality.
Why a B.C. YouTube empire suddenly became mired in controversy | CBC News
Linus Tech Tips, a B.C.-based YouTube empire, is being confronted with claims of inaccuracies in its videos. A former employee is also levelling allegations of a toxic work environment and sexual harassment — allegations the company says it "categorically denies."
They also started to favor quantity of content over quality.
While true before a year ago, at the same time the SMM thing happened, they did some content mistakes, owned up to them and started doing the exact opposite of what you’re saying
I certainly hope so. I stopped caring about them years ago for other reasons. I simply saw that story over the news when it happened.
the leaving of her and the change in content production were actually seperate issues. iirc she spoke up once the content issues came up. Her problem wasn’t even “just” toxic work schedules/loads, but actual harrasment from someone, which aparently wasn’t properly dealt with at the time
SanctusE16s and shit are good. Doesnt really beat my old one. I’d be willing to throw framework on a laptop.
vuranframework 13 snapdragon x edition when
mriormroSo your criticism is them offering an Ethernet port add-on that fits into their modular system but is slightly larger than the rest?
Is that right?
That’s for a second ethernet port right?
MazonnaCara89Nope on the framework 13, with an exception on the audio jack, is modular so you can swap it with another module
Just me but I’d prefer a small rj45 than that quite spacey box IMO, but guess wifi only people prefer it :-)
They have no build-in ports besides audio on the framework 13. The framework 16 only has 6 expansion bays, nothing else.
Alright! That sounds kind of cool actually… Gotta check that out when my t490 dies 😅
Captain AggravatedOr a first, or a third.
A unique feature of the Framework laptop is the reconfigurable port system. Where many laptops these days just have some USB-C ports around the edges and if you need to plug something different in you need a dongle, Framework has these little cutouts in the frame that port modules snap into. They’re basically dongles you can install into the chassis. You can equip the laptop with whatever ports you want wherever you want, or change them out on the fly. I kinda like the fact you can leave them attached to the laptop.
Nice, but isn’t that a whole lot of failure points? I remember a mobile phone based on the same idea and I always felt it could not be very sturdy with all the connectics.
In Framework’s case, the port modules slide into rails in the chassis and click into a latch. They’re surrounded on four sides by the chassis of the laptop only exposed on the bottom and the outboard edge where the port is. The USB-C port on the motherboard is actually relieved of most if not all of the strain.
Take a typical machine, like a Macbook Air or this little Lenovo Ideapad I’ve got. The USB ports on the side are mounted either directly to the motherboard which spans the whole chassis, or a separate daughterboard connected with a ribbon cable. Now plug a USBC to HDMI dongle into that, and then a thick, heavy HDMI cable off of that. The weight of all of this is now being supported by the solder joints holding that USBC port to the circuit board. On a Framework laptop, effectively what’s happening is the USBC to HDMI dongle is being braced by the chassis so the little USBC connection isn’t bearing the weight of the HDMI cable. So I think Framework’s solution is less prone to damage in practice.
Furthermore, do you know how many laptops I’ve seen that had dongles sticking out of a port that were dropped on that dongle, destroying that USB port? Framework’s solution does two things: Puts adapter dongles inboard of the chassis meaning no vulnerable protrusions, and if you do have, say, a Logitech Unifying Transciever sticking out of a USB-A port adapter, and it gets dropped on that corner and it destroys the port, it will be the removable module that gets damaged, not the motherboard port. So go to their store, buy another $9 port module, and swap it out yourself.
I imagine it doesn’t work so much in a phone for a few reasons. Phones are a lot smaller and internal space is more precious, so user level connectors would take up a lot of room. Phones are some of the most abused electronics out there since we handle them nearly constantly, so ideally they’d be carved out of solid granite. We’re talking about attaching larger overall pieces of the device together with a phone, instead of clipping a module in you’re talking about attaching a quarter of the device. And, mostly, no one was really asking for that kind of functionality in a phone.
Seems like a lot of hassle to me for not very much benefits. I mean I have never broken an inbuilt usb port, but connectics are quite often getting unreliable and glitchy, even sometimes inside a phone or laptop.
Thanks for the rundown though and it feels like a fun tinker laptop, cheers :-)
the way they market it is "most laptops these days have like 2 USBC ports on one side and that’s it. it’s has 4 ports, two on each side, that can be anything you want.
Stop beating a dead horse, I got the idea.
If you need X usb ports buy a laptop with X usb ports man or switch the ethernet port for one I guess. I just don’t think the idea is appealing enough, for me it’s like having inbuilt dongles with a point of failure each.
You like it? Go get one!
You’re being downloaded, but you’re not wrong. At least in the case of the Ethernet module, which most people aren’t going to leave plugged in most of the time.
I’m a way, all the modules are dongles; they just don’t dangle.
The utility in the ports being modular is more so in the initial configurability at purchase rather than swapping them out by the user on a regular basis.
I hate it when my 4 to 6 dongles dangle too. So annoying. Thankfully we finally have a solution for it.
Hell, I swap em. I usually don’t have to connect to a TV, but if I do I have the HDMI on hand and I’ll swap it with the 3.5mm, which I use more often so it’s usually in the chamber. You can hotswap em and everything, I love it!
Electrically? Yes.
Mechanically the expansion card has higher durability because the force on the USBC is minimized. It’s also convinient to have build in “carry slots”, so for your standard loadout you don’t need to bring a bag with accessories. Compare it to the dongle storage in a wireless mouse.
This is like saying that a penis and a “vagina” are the same thing because they are both sex organs that you pee from… You’re not technically wrong but most people would agree there is a pretty big difference between the two.
but people don’t pee from vaginas