I just got a copyright claim against a video I posted on youtube 10 years ago.

The video is a film by Georges Melies that was shot in the 1890s.

Someone is attempting to claim copyright over a film that is 130 years old, who's director died 86 years ago.

Now 1) I don't give a shit about this clip on youtube. 2) The person who made this claim is clearly in the wrong. 3) I can't be the only one that they have targeted illegally. 4) Youtube is a problem.

As an archivist, let me say clearly:

Modern copyright law is actively harmful to the preservation and study of our culture.

It harms artists by giving undue power to publishers. It harms artists by limiting remixes. It harms preservation and research efforts.

It's broken. It's bad. It should be massively reformed.

Of course the claimant backed down. How could they do otherwise?

But the fact remains that they should face legal repercussions for claiming ownership over something they don't own.

I should, at least, be able to bill them for the time I spent dealing with their spurious claim, but frankly the repercussions should be worse and deeper than that.

Issuing an illegal takedown notice should come with serious risk.

@ajroach42
Depending on your jurisdiction (I don't know where you live) you could write a bill for the time you spent dealing with the spurious claim, then take the case to small-claims court (in CA that's anything under $500, so make your bill out to come to $490 or something). If the other party doesn't show up, you get a default judgment against them.
The hard part would be collecting on the judgment.
But if you can sell the claim to some collection agency for, like $20 or whatever, you would've made at least a little money out of it and the other side would now be pestered by a collection agency... 🤷‍♂️
Small claims in California | California Courts | Self Help Guide

Small claims basics  Small claims court allows you to sue a person, business, or government agency that you think owes you money. Generally, you can only sue for up to $12,500 in small claims court (or up to $6,250 if you’re a business). You can ask a lawyer for advice before you go to court, but you can't have one with you in court. Special rules for COVID-19 rental debt cases in small claims

@mizblueprint @ajroach42
Oh, excellent - good to know. So: dealing with a spurious claim: 30 minutes @ an hourly rate of $24,990 comes to $12,495, payable net-30. 🤷‍♂️
@SvenGeier @ajroach42
One could try. However, the regular hourly rate seems more reasonable. I don't think small claims judgements in CA can be appealed.

@ajroach42 The concept of easy takedown requests for immunity from direct copyright suits was what made the modern internet possible. I think the DMCA and equivalents were a good idea in the nineties, but they need to be reformed badly to make spurious claims less frequent. Automatic screening and claiming made it too cheap and easy.

Copyright in general was bad already before that and has only gotten worse.

@toni @ajroach42

They weren't even a "good idea in the 90s".

@Maverynthia Okay, you convinced me.

@ajroach42 I mean, we don't really need copyright at all, you've already pointed out that it doesn't help anyone who actually needs the privilege

No copyright, no spurious copyright claims

@ajroach42 If I understand your story, existing copyright law protected you from an absurd claim. The law backed you, as it should have. So perhaps your problem is not with copyright law at all, but rather with a legal system that allows people to harass others by filing frivolous claims without facing consequences—a problem that goes far beyond copyright law. (1/2)
I’m more supportive of copyright than you, perhaps, because it enabled me to make a living by writing some books. Without it, I’d have had to choose a different profession. (2/2)
@ajroach42 it is my understanding that DMCA claims of ownership for things that are clearly not yours are illegal and come with a financial penalty when challenged that goes to the party who was wronged. Furthermore, I think it is actually pretty easy to file the counter-charge thing.
@masukomi right, but they didn't actually make a DMCA claim, as I understand it. Youtube uses an in house system prior yo an actual dmca notice.
@ajroach42 TIL. I thought the YT thing was just a tool to facilitate DMCA claims
@masukomi maybe it is, and I've misunderstood.

@ajroach42 reformed? Abolished more like.

The only purpose of copyright as a legal concept is to turn activities previously labeled "plagiarism" into blameless lawful activities when carried out by a company.

"Work for hire" laws mean that anything you write is by default owned and copyrighted by your employer, and they pay you at most once for it. And as soon as a company asserts copyright of your work, they can remix/resell your work and use it to extract perpetual profit without giving anything back to you, not even attribution is required. It's inherently asymmetric because the whole purpose is extraction

@sleepfreeparent @ajroach42 Copyright was invented in 19th Century UK to protect English printers from their Scottish competitors.
@ajroach42 makes me wonder if un the future people will refer to it as a dark age because of this
@Primo @ajroach42 welcome to the second dark age.

@ajroach42

I recommend Pirate Cinema (2012) a novel by Cory Doctorow, a near future dystopia about the evils of overreaching corporate copyright.

@ajroach42 As someone who has been making YTP content for several years, we too absolutely HATE how copyright works. Whatever some of us post to YouTube, we pray to the Content ID gods that it goes through unscathed.
@ajroach42 I remember when the DMCA was signed into law and the prevailing opinion was that it was terrible legislation. That has borne out.
@ajroach42 Agree! My colleagues are working on a 'solution' from the Indigenous archiving perspective actually :D More info: https://indigenousgulf.online/@BvlbanchaPublicAccess/112722997291592691
Bvlbancha Public Access (@[email protected])

Congratulations to Bvlbancha Public Access for their solution submission to the 2024 MIT SOLVE Indigenous Communities Fellowship making it to the semi-finals! https://solve.mit.edu/challenges/2024-indigenous-communities/solutions "How can Indigenous innovators in the US and Canada build upon traditional knowledge and technology to meet the social, environmental, and economic goals of their communities?" The innovation thought up by Hali Dardar is the Uke' Contracting System, which is a "prototype for Indigenous data sovereignty which creates sole ownership at the initial fixation of copyright for sound, video, and image recordings." Learn more here: https://solve.mit.edu/challenges/2024-indigenous-communities/solutions/87542 #IndigenousGulf #Indigenous #science #solutions #IndigenousCreatives #Bvlbancha #NOLA #MIT

IndigenousGulf.Online

@ajroach42 Just cause I've been looking at the US constitution recently for reasons, this is what the US copyright is constitutionally based on:

"To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;"

Really don't feel like our current laws and practices are really in line with that intent. If anything it prevents progress. Know I'm speaking to the choir, but grr.

@ajroach42 agreed! I'm not entirely anti-copyright - but 10 years should be enough. Having an artists grandkids (or more likely the publishers grandkids) live off royalties does not promote the creation of more!
@ajroach42
.
hadn't thought about it, but they seek to impede the flow of information, don't they, along the lines of expensive tuitions and whatnot
@ajroach42 It definitely does need reform, yes
@ajroach42 or simply abandoned altogether in favour of Citizens' Income.
@ajroach42 @mikoto Sadly, those who truly wield the power to change it will never do so because they are too comfortable with the current system. 

@ajroach42 I am of the opinion that the copyright of works by an individual are fine - except for the term. They don't need to feed the creator's grandkids' grandkids.

Copyright of works by a corporation? Should be like patents - super short. 20 years at most.

Transfers of copyrights TO a corporation should immediately cause them to move to the corporation term.

How about "works by an individual - life of the individual + 20 years; works by a corporation - 20 years; works by an individual then assigned to a corporation - 20 years from date of assignment; or the remainder of the original individual copyright if assigned after the death of the creator."

@charonpdx great. Run for congress.
@ajroach42 I have thought about it - but we don't need yet another cis white man in congress.
@charonpdx @ajroach42 2.5 years maximum inactivity. Use it or lose it.
@ajroach42 I‘m more of a copyright abolitionist myself
@ajroach42 Mark Twain hated the copyright law of his time. He wanted permanent and bequestable copyright in all his works.
@ajroach42 though copyright in the US is something else than Urheberrecht in Germany.
@ajroach42 I wish more independent artists would agree with you - they really seem to think these laws keep them safe from "stealing" of their work
@ajroach42 but most of the 'reforms' are coming from the owner-side, so even worse than what we have now.
@ajroach42 one of my favorite example of this stupidity is that “Yankee Doodle” (one of the most canonically USIan songs) couldn’t be legally created and/or distributed today.
@ajroach42
The whole copyright thing is a convoluted, complicated mess, Tom Scott did a long video about the oh so many nuances of it and it's a whole ugly mess, Youtube is *definitely* taking choices that harm creators when they could take better ones just to save costs and that's on them, but it's just a symptom of the overall problem in the end

@jherazob Right. That's why I said modern copyright law was the problem, and not youtube.

Was I unclear?

Sorry, forgot I already went on about this.
@ajroach42 I might have mentioned it on here before, but I once got a claim on a video from 2011 from a music label claiming it infringed on a 2017 ambient song
@ajroach42 I don't know if they actually sampled my thing or arrived at the same thing independently (it was a simple audio experiment in Audacity), and I didn't care that much about the video in the first place, but I figured if they were being a loose cannon enough with DMCA to assume time travel shenanigans, striking them right back was just fair turnabout
"Streaming" is a problem, along with the corporations that pushed streaming on us, and the police that attacked us for file sharing. Overall the problem is the wealth disparity. Question is what to do about it...
@cy @ajroach42 Not sure why livestreams are a problem.

If you mean reliance on SaaSS malware platforms where you cannot ever acquire the media "legitimately", then yes, that is a problem.
Livestreams facilitate that, by discouraging us from saving things, and encouraging us to produce shit so useless it's not worth saving. Only big companies can really afford to stream stuff to us, so by adopting their rigged game, we end up in their control. Youtube used to have a download button, but it should surprise no one that by streaming, you gave them the power to take it away, and more.

It's like how vidya is a problem. Yes you can in theory make not shit games, but by playing games, we're making it easier for them to screw with our heads, and making it harder for our actual friends and neighbors, by staying inside playing games all day.

Can't blame you for playing games, or for livestreaming, but it really is a problem, and you weren't led to do those things for any reason other than making you a helpless tool.

CC: @[email protected]

@cy @ajroach42

Livestreams facilitate that, by discouraging us from saving things, and encouraging us to produce shit so useless it's not worth saving. Only big companies can really afford to stream stuff to us, so by adopting their rigged game, we end up in their control. Youtube used to have a download button, but it should surprise no one that by streaming, you gave them the power to take it away, and more.

Saving vods is always an option (and most streamers do, the main streams that don't get saved are that way to avoid DMCA bullshit, not for any technical reason), and recording one through yt-dlp (among others) is more than feasible.

I see no particular contradiction there, and no reason why that cannot be continued with Free Software and p2p schemas.

The Youtube download button was probably removed as a result of pressure by copyright fascists, and its "effective" removal was only possible because of the proprietary and SaaSS nature of Youtube as a platform.

It's like how vidya is a problem. Yes you can in theory make not shit games, but by playing games, we're making it easier for them to screw with our heads, and making it harder for our actual friends and neighbors, by staying inside playing games all day.

You must be very lucky indeed to live somewhere where one's neighbors are not socially regressive plague cultists (this has seemingly gotten worse over time, instead of better). The notion of inclusivity for those vulnerable is nowhere in their minds.

My neighbors would sooner try to invite state violence upon me than collaborate on anything of interest, much less assist in loosening the grasp of the statists on our lives.

As for proprietary malware games, I also see no reason why one cannot make Free Software games (and indeed I have many on one of my machines) with interesting stories that do not compromise of corposcum propaganda.

Besides, this body of mine makes in-person interaction profoundly uncomfortable too. I would much prefer to chat with the few of my amicable neighbors over short-range radio.

This would also have the benefit of allowing for the use of asynchronous communication, which greatly superior to synchronous audio-transmitted verbal communication (it enables both richer content and it is more comfortable).

And indeed, I would consider audio-verbal communication and other synchronous communication to be very similar to the streaming you oppose.

Can't blame you for playing games, or for livestreaming, but it really is a problem, and you weren't led to do those things for any reason other than making you a helpless tool.

Are you going to say we should burn down libraries next, because they aren't conducive to one joining in the plague masses?

GitHub - yt-dlp/yt-dlp: A feature-rich command-line audio/video downloader

A feature-rich command-line audio/video downloader - yt-dlp/yt-dlp

GitHub
You must be very lucky indeed to live somewhere where one's neighbors are not socially regressive plague cultists (this has seemingly gotten worse over time, instead of better).
No, you're totally right. What I mean is that TV and video games, and cars, and other things that keep us from interacting allows bullshit like that to fester and grow. I... don't know how to reverse that, but when we have people around us supporting us, we're less paranoid, and it's harder to fool us, or get us to become more extreme.

If I want to be some big antivaxxer, and I go to my neighbor and he's like "Hell no, vaccines are great you're being hoodwinked!" and vam bam boom I'm not a plague cultist anymore. Because (hypothetically) I've gotten to know and trust them.

It might be true that those neighbors are few and far between, but there's 0% chance of escaping the bullshit if you don't have anyone.
Are you going to say we should burn down libraries next, because they aren't conducive to one joining in the plague masses?
We should pass laws guaranteeing libraries the right to copy their own shit. Did you know if you ever go check out an e-book, the library has to actually pay money to the guy who claims he owns the idea? Every time they check it out? Even if you yourself don't copy it? And some publishers even try that shit with physical books now, demanding circulation counts so they can charge money for it!

https://goodereader.com/blog/e-book-news/here-is-a-breakdown-of-how-much-libraries-pay-for-ebooks-from-publishers

So no, I don't like streaming. It's like painting a target on your chest and saying "Monetize me!" Libraries are great, but... decentralize, or they'll target you and start sending you fraudulent bills and lawsuits.
Here is a breakdown of how much libraries pay for ebooks from publishers - Good e-Reader

Major publishers all have different strategies for selling ebooks to the public library system. Baker & Taylor, Overdrive and a myriad of others have to have enough of a selection to keep their patrons satisfied, but it can be challenging to know all of the different prices, terms and models that publishers employ, since they have changed many times over the years.

Good e-Reader - The latest news on e-readers, ebooks & audiobooks
@cy @lispi314 I disagree with basically all of this, but it starts with so many assumptions I don't understand that I think I would rather just let it go.
@ajroach42 You should take them to court...

@ajroach42 I made videos for a while on YouTube and I encountered these music channels that offered royalty-free music that encouraged creators to use them.

Three years later, every single video of mine that used them was later copyright claimed by that channel.

I later switched to Epidemic Sound for my music and I still get claimed every so often but Epidemic just swats them down now.

Incidentally, did UniversalTimeWarnerNBCComcast or some big studio ever do a documentary on the zoopraxiscope? If they did, I should go start reporting all videos with a clip from a zoopraxiscope as copyright infringement.

@ajroach42 Someone at youtube obviously ignored the possibility of malicious copyright violation claims.

Someone really fucking dumb.