We coulda had Bernie...
When you compare Biden to Trump vs. the effects on the Palestinians, were Trump president again, he would not just help the Israelis exterminate the Palestinians, but encourage them to do so quickly- as he’s already told Bibi to “finish it”. So your dichotomy is more than a bit disingenuous .
If our only standard is not a Republican, then everytime Republicans lower their standards, they lower the only other option’s standards too.
It’s not fucking sustainable.
Vote in your local elections, and support (or directly work to pass) election reform laws, particularly related to ditching the electoral college.
Not necessarily saying it’s the alternative, but it’s a start and local elections have larger personal impact most of the time.
Well, that’s up to the DNC. They could put almost any other prominent dem and they’d probably beat Trump. The DNC also has the ability to change the candidate after the election but before the electoral ballots are cast.
Trust, I understand your point. The primaries are over, and that’s where the different candidate should have been chosen. But unfortunately, the whole not knowing any viable alternatives line of thinking is what got the DNC into this mess in the first place.
Yeah, I think any other Dem candidate is a gamble: you lose out on the significant incumbent boost, you only have 4 months to campaign if you start now, and you risk losing momentum on the moderate vote. This isn’t an election I want to gamble with, especially with the recent SCOTUS ruling. Everything said and done, I don’t think the benefits outweigh the risks.
November 6th is when we should start pushing for significant changes. 11th hour fuckery isn’t going to help this cycle.
Yeah, I think any other Dem candidate is a gamble: you lose out on the significant incumbent boost
Except Biden has a 37% approval rating…
That’s Jimmy Carter level…
Do you know what happened with Jimmy Carter’s second term?
An incumbency only translates to a boost, when being the incumbent is a positive thing.
2/3s of voters don’t think Biden is a good president. 56% think he is a bad one.
We can’t afford to hope enough people hold their nose for him.
This is bigger than any one person, even Joe Biden
That the DNC would let run?
Whitmere.
That would get the most votes?
AOC
Not in Data for Progress’ poll…
They used to be good, but after Biden won 2020 and they started working with the DNC, things went downhill quickly.
During the 2022 midterms, their polls ended up overestimating Republican support.[14] The Tartan reported that the group’s leader, Sean McElwee, was gambling on election results on the website PredictIt, raising ethical concerns.[15] McElwee left the firm in November 2022 amidst allegations of gambling on election results and artificially manipulating polling results to affect races that he had bet money on.[16] Additionally, it has been reported McElwee had inquired among his employees about having them participate in an illegal straw donor scheme.[16] Senior members of Data for Progress informed McElwee that they would resign en masse if he did not step down as the firm’s executive director.[16]
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_for_Progress
Even before that, they were “quick and dirty” polling.
But that’s a whole big can of worms to get into.
The important part is that these candidates are polling similar to Biden against Trump already.
And Biden has the full weight of the DNC behind him (at least up till last week) and an active campaign.
Obviously anyone that became the candidate and started campaign would see a jump.in their numbers unless it was someone like Hillary
What?
You’re just ignoring everything I say and asking different questions, even though I’ve already talked about it:
The important part is that these candidates are polling similar to Biden against Trump already.
And Biden has the full weight of the DNC behind him (at least up till last week) and an active campaign.
Obviously anyone that became the candidate and started campaign would see a jump.in their numbers unless it was someone like Hillary
Ignoring your unfounded claims? Yes, I will continue to do that, because you haven’t offered any proof for
these candidates are polling similar to Biden against Trump already.
other than just claiming it. And now that I’m asking for that proof, you’re pretending I’m changing the subject.
I’ll ask again: show me actual data which suggests Whitmer or AOC outperforms Biden against Trump in the general.
Mate…
You quoted a poll, I asked if it was the one I’m thinking of (because you didn’t link it) and now you’re demanding I link you the poll you brought up?
But fine, here’s a poll that shows Whitmere polling competitively to Biden
www.cnn.com/2024/07/02/politics/…/index.html
And I never claimed her or AOC are polling better than Biden…
Like, I think you need to take a deep breath, maybe go get a glass of water, and read thru this thread again.
I say one thing, you say I said something else, and then insist on me defending the position you made up.
I’m willing to give you the benefit of the doubt because peoples emotions (rightfully) are elevated this election. But I’m pretty close to just blocking at this point because there’s no way this ever becomes productive if you continue like this.
Three-quarters of US voters say the Democratic Party would have a better shot at holding the presidency in 2024 with someone other than President Joe Biden at the top of the ticket, according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS. His approval rating also has hit a new low following a shaky performance in the first debate of this year’s presidential campaign.
I didn’t quote a poll, I said there were no polls supporting your conclusion. You assumed I was talking about a specific poll, and then attacked that poll.
Ipsos shows everyone but Harris and Michelle Obama well behind Biden.
Again, actions I support. These actions, however, are not mutually exclusive to voting in elections for the lesser evil. In fact, these actions are more substantially suppressed under the greater evil. The rational action then is to use all avenues available to oneself, including but not limited to voting for whichever of the two dominant parties is less detrimental to action on other avenues.
Once of the two dominant parties is objectively worse for the organization of the working class. Vote for the less worse party, while you organize and pressure the powers that be.
are not mutually exclusive to voting in elections for the lesser evil
I agree with that. This case though, presents two very evil options. You guys have been legalizing child labour again, building a theocracy and doing an ethnic cleansing in the middle east under the supposed lesser evil. They are accelerating fascism regardless of who wins, vote if you will but other avenues must be pursued if you are to keep your thin veil of civility.
Yes, orders of magnitude. The only real world scenario that’s relevant (because again, child labor and theocracy are purely Republican initiatives) is Palestine. Biden is trying to reign in Netanyahu within the latitude assisted him by existing, congressionally determined defense agreements and the complex geopolitical landscape of the middle east. Trump loves Netanyahu and thinks he should hurry up with the genocide already. That is orders of magnitude worse.
The tiny minority of socialists aren’t capable of rallying large swaths of the population into countrywide action, this is true. But they can sway a slim minority of non-conservatives to sit out on an already dangerously close race. All they have to do is shave off a percent or two here or there to seal our fate.
democrats are literally doing all these things, right now. and you really do think geopolitics justifies financing a big fascist for a genocide? cmon man. sitting in the nazi table isn’t a flex
people dont want to vote to biden because peoples actual lives are still slowly getting worse, and all they can do is pretend not to be commiting war crimes.
This is pointless. You’re making things up. Show me which Democrats are pushing child labor and theocracy.
Is target my life slowly get worse than rapidly get worse, which is the alternative. Slowly getting worse buys time for grassroots. Trump will come down on grassroots. This is very simple logic, under no circumstance is Biden worse for socialists than Trump. This is ridiculous and you’re being willfully obtuse.
what do you mean. democrats are commiting genocide in the middle east, torturing mexicans at the border, sending ukranians as cannon fodder.
and moving no muscle to stop any advance of the aforementioned fascism.
Republicans would accelerate genocide in the middle east, torture more Mexicans at the border, and genocide Ukrainians.
They are the ones actively advancing the aforementioned fascism. Like I said, the cover is between things slowly getting worse, and quickly getting worse. Slowly getting worse gives us more time to do something about it. Democrats losing is objectively worse for all your talking points, worse for Americans, wise for the world, and particularly worse for leftists.
I don’t know who’s side you think you’re on, but I certainly know what side your actions support. Either you’re deliberately trying to hurt the left, or you’ve unwittingly fallen for talking points that serve to hurt the left. I’m not interested in talking to propagandists or their feckless stooges.
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