Mastodawn

SearingTruth Jun 27, 2024

"History is replete with examples of its own iteration."
SearingTruth

LexiGirl Jun 27, 2024

@luckytran please can someone explain to me the move to ban masks. I really don’t understand!

Lillian Violet Jun 27, 2024

@luckytran There's a few points to it. Firstly it's about recognition, it's harder to identify people with masks, which the police and powers that be don't like, especially in protests. Secondly it's a morale thing, less people are likely to show up to protests and other events if they think they can be arrested solely for wearing a mask. And thirdly it's about control, if you feel like you're being controlled you will be more stressed and less likely to forge bonds in actions, and police feels more confident in using their mandate.

Sepia Fan Jun 27, 2024

@LexiGirl @GLaDTheresCake
Not to forget fourthly that people feel uneasy when they spot someone wearing a mask because it indicates that there might be a risk.
People should be protected from health risks - ehm - I mean, from feeling uneasy or cautious. Because this could hamper spending and consumption like in crowded places or at commercial mass events.

LexiGirl Jun 27, 2024

@stekopf @GLaDTheresCake @luckytran it’s ironic that we instantly perceive the mask wearer is protecting us from their germs when in many cases they are protecting themselves against our germs….

Yorgus (Old white Guy)Jun 28, 2024

@GLaDTheresCake @luckytran I still wear a mask whenever I am in an indoor public space, e.g. stores. I am usually the only person wearing a mask, and I live in a rural, overwhelmingly Republican, unvaccinated community. I have seldom received a second or disparaging look.

I have Diabetes II, and I am over 70 yo, so very much at risk. If people talk behind my back, I don't care.

@luckytran @annaleen
@Hackingsocial

jdb Jun 27, 2024

Thank you for sharing
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8802602/

The 1918 Influenza Pandemic and the Rise of Italian Fascism: A Cross-City Quantitative and Historical Text Qualitative Analysis

PubMed Central (PMC)

Judy Olo 🚫⚠️kakistocracy🌊Jun 27, 2024

@jdb @luckytran @annaleen @Hackingsocial
Amazing. So these people who SEE themselves dying away---- CHOOSE a "leader" who declares war against healthcare, SocSec, human rights? I JUST cannot wrap my brain around this way of thinking....From article : "counties where life expectancy stagnated or declined between 1980 and 2014 were more likely to swing toward support for Donald Trump in the 2016 presidential election"

Phil Landmeier Jun 27, 2024

@luckytran Yes indeed, fear make people do stupid things.

Franky Jun 27, 2024

@luckytran There is this really interesting Well-there's-your-Problem podcast episode that features the spanish flu. Though a warning, the jokes and tangents can be irritating if you don't find them funny. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oifinZTKxKo

Well There's Your Problem | Episode 20: 1918 Philadelphia War Bond Parade

YouTube

xs4me2 Jun 27, 2024

Thanks for this paper!

Interesting point of view… it confirms my thought how stress and uncertainty in a community amplifies the call for strongmen that will solve it all…

It is in fact how fascism works best, through irrational fear, uncertainty, crises and scapegoats. Politics of the gut. It has never brought solutions though…

Alexander Karn Jun 27, 2024

No question that pandemic illness stokes the politics of racial purity/supremacy and xenophobic hostility.

Let’s not memory hole the ugly, racist rhetoric of the initial COVID outbreak and the anti-Asian attacks it precipitated/unleashed.

⁂ Fish Id Wardrobe Jun 27, 2024

@luckytran that's an interesting and troubling take

Sepia Fan Jun 27, 2024

"In den #USA fanden Bor et al. heraus, daß Bezirke, in denen die Lebenserwartung zw. 1980 und 2014 stagnierte oder sank, 2016 eher Donald #Trump unterstützten. Ähnlich zeigten Gemeinden mit sich verschlechtertem Gesundheitszustand in #UK eine größere Unterstützung für den #Brexit. Auch waren bspw. steigende Sterblichkeitsraten in dt. Regionen in den frühen 1930er Jahre positiv mit dem Aufstieg der #NSDAP verbunden und die Grippetoten in 1918 korrelierten mit Wahlerfolgen der #Nazis."

DP0 Jun 27, 2024

@luckytran I tend to disagree ... at least in general. Whilst it is true that right-wingers and fascist feast on all kinds of cataclysmic events like vultures, it is often difficult to isolate one single event. In case of the rise of fascism in Europe in the 20s/30s the Spanish flue might be one of the contributors ... together with other causes like Versailles (notably Germany), the Spanish revolution (obviously Spain), the world-wide economic crisis, etc.

@DP0 @luckytran yep. This is nonsense. The reason Nazism rose is because of the stab in the back idea and the Versailles Treaty. Hitler was so angry with France that he made them surrender IN THE EXACT SAME PLACE IN THE EXACT SAME TRAIN CAR! And the 1918 pandemic was long over by the time the NSDAP became the largest party. The NYSE crash boosted them. In 23 they couldn’t even take over the government. 1/n

@DP0 @luckytran Hitler went to prison. It’s true that he got off much lighter than he was supposed to due to sympathisers but he had too little support in 23 (that didn’t mean they didn’t turn it into their own mythology). And they thought they could control Hitler by making him chancellor. A communist (despite what some say there’s evidence that it was a communist and not a Nazi) did the Reichstagbrand. 2/n

@DP0 @luckytran That in turn gave Hitler almost dictatorial power. But they didn’t have that much support until years after the pandemic. Another reason people supported them: not a pandemic but because the alternative was Communism.

As for Duce just because he wanted the pandemic over doesn’t mean that he wanted to be dictator because of it! That is ridiculous. People who want to be dictator want to be dictator because they want power. 3/n

@DP0 @luckytran And plenty of people who are not fascists want it to go away too!

As for more modern fascism these people who think it’s the pandemic must not know about the AfD. Did you not know about them? And did you not know that some of them were wearing cornflower blue?

So what you might ask! Well before the NSDAP had power in Austria (before the Anschluß) Nazis in Austria wore it to tell other Nazis they were Nazis! 4/n

@DP0 @luckytran and as far as the US and abroad fascism has been on the rise for far longer than Covid.

If there is any amount of correlation it’s so minimal that it means next to nil.

The NHS and others should leave this to historians and not make up crap.

If it was a matter of the amount of deaths why did the Italians murder Duce and his wife and then publicly display them? That terrified Hitler so much he made sure that couldn’t happen to him! 5/n

@DP0 @luckytran Btw: Hitler said very early on that if Germany were to come back they needed a genius dictator. By which he meant himself. Not many heard that but he said it.

He ALSO said to Wiedemann in 38: 'I'm not here to ensure peace in Europe; I'm here to make Germany great again. If that can be done peacefully, well and good. If not, we'll have to do it differently.'

Again this should be left to historians not medical people. 5/n (or was it 6?)

@DP0 @luckytran and I have a great deal of medical experience. Indeed doctors have asked me if I was a doctor and recently a now retired doctor of mine even pointed out that I am good with dosing. I don’t know enough to be a doctor but if I could deal with uni and residency and people I would be a good doctor.

But I have also studied the NSDAP, the Second World War and the Holocaust for many many years. 7/n

@DP0 @luckytran .. and this thought is nothing more than post hoc ergo propter hoc. 8/n

@DP0 @luckytran and although I didn’t touch that much on Duce there’s enough: fascism does feed off fear and other things but nobody wants to be a dictator because of a pandemic! They want the power! That’s very simple. It should be obvious. 9/n

@DP0 @luckytran and to those who don’t know: Hitler was not made chancellor until January. When Hindenburg died there was a vote (not that it mattered) and it was something like 95% voted for the Nazis. Hitler said ‘thus I have conquered Germany’. Hindenburg also told him to bring the troublemakers to reason and told Hitler something like ‘my dear Chancellor, all those who make history must be able to shed blood’. 10/n

@DP0 @luckytran Finally contrary to popular belief the SA WAS plotting to take over. Göring’s FA had evidence of it. Even so some made use of the opportunity to settle old scores. Hitler almost felt used.