LillyLyle/Count MelancholiaRT'ed by William Gibson on Twitter:
and it's so very on the nose of the issue:
and it's so very on the nose of the issue:
xs4me2This 👆
Wiredfire@xs4me2 @LillyHerself not “this” unless backed up with data about how these various data centres source their energy.
Many have been and are increasingly using sustainable power, mostly because it’s actually more cost effective most of the time and they can do a little greenwashing as a bonus.
There are a multitude of reasons to dunk on LLMs / AI but power usage isn’t the “gotcha” many think it is.
Edit: It’s been fun but muting now to silence trolls 😆 🔇
@wiredfire @xs4me2 You can believe that, if it makes you feel better. But as long as there is still nuclear, and fossil fuels are still being burnt, and we are asked to keep our power usage down for essential things, and as long as the earth's climate continues being disrupted, then I'm afraid there's no excuse for it.
@LillyHerself @xs4me2 aye, I’m not actually contesting that but it’s conjecture - attack AI with things that OpenAI and their fetid kin can’t hand-wave away. How they power their infra isn’t the route.
✨buff dog himbo✨@wiredfire @LillyHerself @xs4me2 considering that before the AI boom, we were collectively only managing to power about 6% of the total energy use with renewables on a regular basis, there is ZERO REASON to think it's different with AI because "they pwomise." Everyone is absolutely right to dunk on the power consumption, just like with shitcoin, in fact they don't dunk nearly hard enough.
https://news.yahoo.com/news/power-hungry-ai-boom-making-164025548.html?guccounter=1
@wiredfire @LillyHerself @xs4me2 this isn't even to mention the water cost.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-024-00478-x
Fresh water is not becoming a more abundant resource, but new gigantic data centers are making the problem worse by consuming vast amounts of water. The AI boom is driving the creation of new & larger (more energy & water-intensive) data centers, including in areas already direly short on water.
Jennifer
LR@itsmeholland @wiredfire @LillyHerself @xs4me2 yes, once used, the water is gone afterwards. poof. each individual H2O molecule zapped from existence. it's a shame!
@lritter @wiredfire @LillyHerself @xs4me2 it doesn't matter how much fucking h2o you have if none of it is drinkable LMAO wtf? Have you been asleep for the past 50 years? We're not good at reclaiming water, desalination is not a sustainable solution & even rainwater is now considered to be unsafe to drink ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD. If we squander the drinking & irrigation water at this point, we're fucked, bud.
@lritter @wiredfire @LillyHerself @xs4me2 like this is maybe the most hilariously wrong comment you could have made lmao.
You don't need to destroy the water molecules to have too much usless, polluted, or contaminated water and not enough drinkable water or water that's usable for agriculture, or even simply water that's safe to allow back into the environment bc surprise! Putting contaminated water back into the noncontaminated water creates BIG PROBLEMS
Rin3d@LillyHerself @wiredfire @xs4me2 Hold up. Why are you upset about nuclear? Its the single cleanest power source ever. The safest aswell even when you include both Chernobyl and Fukushima disasters. Meanwhile Solar is prone to breaking and leaching heavy metals like mercury into the ground, hydro decimates environments and changes the entire local ecological structure of an area, wind takes a ton of aluminum and is very specific on where it can be used.
Nuclear is the best power source.
datenwolf@Rin3d @LillyHerself @wiredfire @xs4me2 please don't spread misinformation about solar. There's zero mercury in any PV tech in wide use. The only toxic PV tech in commercial use is CdTe and that has been displaced by entirely nontoxic silicon tech PV over the past 10 years (give or take); I wouldn't even know where to buy a CdTe module these days.
@Rin3d @LillyHerself @wiredfire
If you have no idea what you are talking about, you should maybe also try to refrain from spreading total nonsense...
but then again there is the Dunning-Kruger effect of course...
EricGeneric@Rin3d @LillyHerself @wiredfire @xs4me2 I guess you take the nuclear wast home in your garage for storage the next… um… 1million years?
@EricGeneric @LillyHerself @wiredfire @xs4me2 Do you know 90% of nuclear waste is just PPE gear that we could eliminate simply by making self contained self regulating thorium reactors? There's really no reason to worry about nuclear waste we have plenty of places to store it for thousands of years without issue.
Anton@Rin3d I call BS and "russian troll."
Read and follow up on science. We don't have plenty of places either.
https://www.dw.com/en/nuclear-waste-in-disused-german-mine-leaves-a-bitter-legacy/a-47420382
But sure, you can share your backyard for that remaining 10%.
Read and follow up on science. We don't have plenty of places either.
https://www.dw.com/en/nuclear-waste-in-disused-german-mine-leaves-a-bitter-legacy/a-47420382
But sure, you can share your backyard for that remaining 10%.
beaumains@wiredfire @xs4me2 @LillyHerself that sustainable, renewable power could be used to power peoples homes instead. Or replace some fossil fuels somewhere else.
Wilfried Klaebe@wiredfire As long as there is unsustainable energy "production", it is.
alberta is a hoax@wonka @wiredfire @beaumains @xs4me2 @LillyHerself ...and as long as privatized power providers are raising costs, that one girl with five bodacious tatas is a rounding error for the very rich...or the $7 your power bill went up for the rest of us.
@wiredfire @xs4me2 @LillyHerself while there's still fossil fuel generation it effectively is either/or.
Leendaal
Karl Auerbach@beaumains @wiredfire @xs4me2 @LillyHerself Or that power could be used to fill storage systems, such as large battery array near me at Elkhorn Slough, or to charge home battery systems.
RodneyPetersonTalentAgency@wiredfire @xs4me2 @LillyHerself
Oh shut the fuck up. I suppose you also think the same about crypto. Asshole.
@RodneyPetersonTalent @xs4me2 @LillyHerself actually no, there’s plenty of good evidence of awful dirty energy used for crypto. But if we’re cussing you can shut the fuck putting words in my mouth and either refute my point or back up the initial point made with reputable fact-based sources.
Or you can just.. do whatever this weirdness is you’re doing. Fking keyboard warriors.
@wiredfire @xs4me2 @LillyHerself
Yeah I’ll keep doing what I’m doing. Actual research as opposed to believing assholes pushing an agenda, thank you.
@RodneyPetersonTalent @xs4me2 @LillyHerself
And yet no such research offered 🤷
Fact is taking ChatGPt for example the sources of its energy aren’t actually public knowledge, so I’m not sure conjecture counts as “research”. Apple and Microsoft as other players in the space both invest heavily in sustainable data centres, with their infrastructure at carbon neutral or on the path to it. I have no agenda and you’re the one that got angry.
@wiredfire @xs4me2 @LillyHerself
Because actually trying to present evidence to people who are pushing an agenda is not worth my time. And clearly most people here are not supporting you in any way.
@RodneyPetersonTalent @xs4me2 @LillyHerself I have no agenda..? Other than agreeing that AI is a terrible idea and it should be stood up to, which I feel like isn't a million miles away from your position but here we are with you insisting that we be at loggerheads 🤷♂️
Though I would genuinely like and would read the evidence you have. I'm always up for learning more and being better informed.
(Lastly popular consensus isn't the same as fact)
Megahertz
Mark M. Evans@wiredfire you muted this, but for people that may be confused by your conflation - The issue during a heatwave is not if the energy is green. The issue is the grid not being able to supply the demand and causing a brown out and then people dying.
The data centers are not on separate grids, the whole “using green energy” thing is just accounting, not separate infrastructure.
@wiredfire @xs4me2 @LillyHerself I don't know what country you're in, but in the US this is happening (gift article):
Internet data centers are fueling drive to old power source: Coal
... antiquated coal-powered electricity plants that had been scheduled to go offline will need to keep running to fuel the increasing need for more power, undermining clean energy goals.
https://wapo.st/3S2MqNp
Didn’t remember asking for your biased opinion, but good luck with that 😬
Royfireball@wiredfire @xs4me2 @LillyHerself
Here is a link to a Q&A with an assistant proffessor from the University of Washington who studies ai https://www.washington.edu/news/2023/07/27/how-much-energy-does-chatgpt-use/
Regardless of where that power comes from, the LLM'S have failed to justify the energy cost of their use in every way.
Janie Karma S 🏳️🌈🖖🏿