samir, an unknown quantityHow many professional programmers are working on pointless and/or actively harmful products?
Give me your best guess.
(If you vote, please boost to diversify the results. It’s polite.)
0–25%
25–50%
50–75%
75–100%
Poll ended at .
AmgineA key qualification was the word "professional".
In most places 'programmers' are not members of a professional association with codes of conduct/ethics, nor are there standards of education/training, nor licensure or bond.
Which ultimately means the professionals do not know they can refuse unethical/immoral work requirements, nor have they organized to enforce their rights.
Warlock Of WiresUnfortunately, software engineering is more akin to building trades than PE: the area of its applied sciences is very large, not well-defined, and entails a myriad of sub-specialization.
That does not mean, like trades or finance, they cannot form guilds and unions to build standards and enforce regulations and ethics. It just means PE will not accept them into the fold.
William Pietri@amgine I think one of our errors is to treat "software engineering" as a unified thing. Some of it is (or should be) actual engineering. Some is like the trades. A bunch is handwritten-handyman-ad-on-a-telephone pole work. That a bunch of people from the last skill category think they can work on life-critical stuff is deranged.
@Warlockofwires @samir
@Warlockofwires @samir
@williampietri @Warlockofwires @samir
Excellent, excellent, point.
One can draw two lines, describing three loose 'divisions':
logic which works with hardware directly.
logic which works within an Operating System.
But setting up a SE association must be a benefit to industry and community. History suggests professional associations (PAs) are most likely when they reduce corporate liability when government increases corporate liability.
1/2
PAs know the rules, enforce them, and advocate for changes with governing bodies. Members at a Co. will reduce that company's risk of fine/lawsuit. Their involvement with gov't will improve specificity and sensitivity of rules.
To get there, devs need to talk about ethics, & what rules should be in place to not harm people/communities/world. We and government need to know this.
We need to know existing rules, and inform each other about them. This is a duty, not just a good..
finis.