Mastodawn

Dave Winer ☕️Jun 7, 2024

This would make a fine campaign ad.

@davew It's more like she's offering a hunk of wood with nails in it, vs. a platter of shit with bits of broken glass, tbh. I would much rather have a nice wooden log and maybe we can remove the nails, and you know, it won't smell or make me sick... but neither is edible. Oh and the log is also supporting genocide, which makes it a tougher call. Rooting for log with nails, just to be clear. Go log with nails. Yay log.

God I wish this were that simple. I really do.

❓ucblockhead Jun 7, 2024

@trisweb @davew One side will roll back the rights of women and LGBTQ people and in fact has already succeeded in rolling some women's rights precisely because one of the candidates was president and put two people on the Supreme Court.

One side will not.

So if you say both candidates are equal, you are implicitly saying the rights of anyone who is not a straight cis man is not important.

Since Sedaris is not a straight cis man, it's obvious why he'd use the analogy he did.

trisweb Jun 7, 2024

@ucblockhead @davew I know the dichotomy very well, and I completely understand and appreciate your laying it out plainly.

I am not saying both sides are equal.

I'm saying that the dichotomy doesn't make one side good.

And asking people to make that true doesn't make it so.

Face the truth, and ask for the commitment. Don't make the ultimatum into a moral judgement. Don't make it into a binary.

Make it a tough job we must roll up our sleeves and do together because it must be done.

Because it must.

❓ucblockhead Jun 7, 2024

@trisweb @davew I definitely understand the point. But given our unfortunate bipolar political system, you can either work within the system or give up all voice.

I definitely agree that neither side is good. That has always been the case. One of the reasons we lost all momentum as a country on social safety net is that the Democrats impaled themselves on Vietnam and so we got Nixon. Now history seems to be repeating itself but worse.

Pete Jun 7, 2024

@ucblockhead @trisweb @davew I’m not an astute observer of society and related goings-on, nor am I a political philosopher. However, I would direct everyone on this thread to review Gore Vidal’s assessment of our system from 50-60 years ago. Yes, Biden leaves a bad taste in my mouth compared to what I see as the ideal, but this is an open-and-shut-case of picking the lesser of two evils.

Pete Jun 7, 2024

@davew @ucblockhead @trisweb

❓ucblockhead Jun 7, 2024

@petep44 @trisweb @davew Yes, it absolutely is the lesser of two evils. That said, I'd prefer not to have to deal with the greater evil in charge.

Pete Jun 7, 2024

@ucblockhead @trisweb @davew in an ideal world . . .

❓ucblockhead Jun 7, 2024

@petep44 @trisweb @davew Sadly history shows that massive change does not come without massive societal convulsion and I'm selfish enough not to want to have to live through that.

Pete Jun 7, 2024

@trisweb @davew @ucblockhead UCBlockhead: when I read your comment my mind glitched to all the pain, suffering, starvation and privation endured by postwar Germany. This is a subject I only scratched the surface of as an adult. And the entirety of WWII brought various levels of pain to 100s of millions. . . Is this just the end result of the quest for greed, money, power and cruelty?
-Peace

I've moved to [email protected]Jun 7, 2024

@petep44 As someone who'll have to hold her nose extra hard when voting for Biden again, I think it's valuable to consider who we can change.

Trump doesn't give a flying fuck what we think. He'll do what he wants to do, or what other evil people convince him to do.

Biden is more responsive to pressure & public opinion. Remember when Psaki sarcastically asked if they should be sending everyone free covid tests? And next thing we knew, free covid tests.

@ucblockhead @trisweb @davew

Muriel Silberstreif Jun 8, 2024

@ucblockhead @trisweb @davew There are alternatives to working within the system and giving up your voice.

Janis Jun 7, 2024

@trisweb @ucblockhead @davew Hate to pop your bubble, but politics has always been a steaming pile of shit. For the most part, however, it replaces tiny warring tribes.

It's airplane food. None of it is edible. If you're looking to influence the quality of the food, stop with the whining, get into the goddamn kitchen and get cooking.

If you need caucus reminders, I'm happy to act as your kitchen timer.

Phogna Bologna Jun 8, 2024

@trisweb @ucblockhead @davew have you *had* airline chicken? The metaphor is damn near perfect (and this was written previous to the last election!) 😀

trisweb Jun 8, 2024

@bransonturner @ucblockhead @davew it was just fine and appropriate before the last election! I think it’s still appropriate if it’s the same chicken this election.

Al ⁂Jun 8, 2024

@davew @ucblockhead @trisweb and this is why the Democrats will never get better because the republicans will always be worse.

They both support genocide though so take the crumbs

Raouf Dool Jun 8, 2024

@ucblockhead @trisweb @davew wait Sedaris is def a cis man! He even wrote some extra goofy column about being “straight” and abhorring the word queer

trisweb Jun 7, 2024

@davew Nice, I got blocked for this. Fun times. Luckily, you can all still see this even if OP can't.

Folks, the truth is really difficult. It's not easy to talk about this stuff, but we've gotta do it. We've gotta do it better.

It's more nuanced than these sports teams we call political parties, it's more complicated than the evil orange criminal versus dark biden.

You've got a whole generation of young people who would never vote for Joe in a million years because he can't figure out the right thing to say about killing children. I don't envy him—this is a really difficult situation. But we've gotta stop with the sound bites and start admitting that it's not simple.

Start with your neighbor, or your fellow mastodon poster. Not everyone who doesn't see black & white is against you. We've gotta get past this block if we want to move forward.

Peace.

❓ucblockhead Jun 7, 2024

@trisweb @davew He blocked me too, and I at least I *thought* I was agreeing with him.

I guess he just doesn't like conversation. :-P

Scott Willsey Jun 7, 2024

Yeah, Dave Winer is notoriously easily offended. I’m not good with people either, so I get it, but I don’t think he realizes he’s not good with people. 😄

Eastbaynian Jun 7, 2024

@trisweb @davew the thing is if Biden were to withdraw his support for Israel he would just lose regardless of what you want.

trisweb Jun 7, 2024

@eastbaynian @davew Interestingly, he's also going to lose because he doesn't.

I never said it was easy. I never said it was simple.

Finding the next step in an impossible situation like this is the mark of a true leader. I'm not saying he needs to be a true leader to be the right choice, but shit an ounce of good leadership here would sure help.

Pete Jun 7, 2024

@davew @eastbaynian @trisweb Voting for a presidential candidate isn’t a marriage proposal, it’s a chess move where you hope we move closer to a desired outcome. 🤷🏽‍♂️

trisweb Jun 7, 2024

@petep44 @davew @eastbaynian Yep. https://m.trisweb.com/@trisweb/112577042193700451

Tristan Harward (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] I know the dichotomy very well, and I completely understand and appreciate your laying it out plainly. I am not saying both sides are equal. I'm saying that the dichotomy doesn't make one side good. And asking people to make that true doesn't make it so. Face the truth, and ask for the commitment. Don't make the ultimatum into a moral judgement. Don't make it into a binary. Make it a tough job we must roll up our sleeves and do together because it must be done. Because it must.

Mastodon

Rae Patterson Jun 7, 2024

@trisweb @davew

It's more like the trolley problem, where you can vote for a guy who supports a genocide, or you can vote for the other guy who enthusiastically supports that genocide plus many others (LGBT people, immigrants, non-Christians, women who have unauthorized sex), or you can not vote and feel like you stood up for your principles while the guy you didn't vote out puts your neighbours in concentration camps.

But at least your conscience is clean.

trisweb Jun 7, 2024

@RaePatterson @davew I don’t know what you’re talking about, I’m voting for Biden.

I’m talking about how you get other people to vote for Biden too, in a way that has a chance of actually working instead of pushing them further away; and how he can genuinely lead better. I think that’s a completely reasonable thing to push a president of the United States to do.

Rae Patterson Jun 7, 2024

Sorry, after I wrote this I realized it sounded like I was addressing it to you particularly, not to the generic "you" out there, to those people who think that Biden's Gaza policy makes it impossible to vote for him. I thought I was adding to your argument.

I, like you, am on Team Log :)

enoch_exe_inc Jun 7, 2024

@RaePatterson @trisweb @davew If you live in a highly developed country, your conscience is irrelevant to your participation in democracy. Our countries (the United States and Canada) were founded on stolen land and plundered resources that assumes the existence of an economic system that requires massive amounts of preventable poverty and exploitation to function. I’m not okay with that, but I also can’t just leave.

enoch_exe_inc Jun 7, 2024

@trisweb @davew It is that simple if you simply accept that lesser-evil utilitarianism is simply the inevitable consequence of a two-party dictatorship. You are free to move to other countries where this is less pronounced (like here in Canada, where the NDP and the Bloc Québécois are our third parties), but there is no way to engage in a two-party system other than vote for the lesser evil.

JakeQuokkaMCM Jun 7, 2024

@trisweb @davew stand up if you think that the Palestinians and Ukraine will fare better under Trump or Kennedy. Please state your case if you will.

dilletante Jun 7, 2024

@trisweb @davew

When in your life time was there a presidential nominee who was acceptable to you?

Red Shirt Dude Jun 7, 2024

@trisweb @davew It *is* that simple; anyone that doesn't think so is part of the problem. I'd have voted for a raccoon with a magic 8 Ball over tRunt.

trisweb Jun 7, 2024

@Red_Shirt_Dude @davew you don’t have to convince me!

Andreas K Jun 8, 2024

@trisweb @davew
Considering that Trump is even more pro-Israel, anti-Palestine than Biden, genocide or no is not even an argument for the US election.

I think the only thing that you need to know about Trump and the Middle East was his comment that Israel should solve the “problem this time properly”. Guess too much Mein Kampf bedtime reading for Donald?