Mastodawn

Oliver Blanthorn

Much awaited Deutschlandticket à la française announced: https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/pass-rail

- only for 16-26 yos
- only for TERs and Intercités, no other transport included
- you have to book a free ticket for each journey you take, even TERs
- you're only allowed to catch one train from a single station per day (changing trains counts, if you have separate tickets)
- you're only allowed one ticket per hour per day (!?)
- €49/mo, July and August only

Not quite as simple as the Deutchslandticket

Le Pass Rail | Ministères Aménagement du territoire Transition écologique

Vous avez entre 16 et 27 ans inclus? Vous êtes éligible au Pass Rail ! Annoncé par le président de la République en septembre 2023 et en partenariat avec les Régions, le Pass Rail donne un accès illimité pour voyager en train et découvrir le patrimoine français.

Ministères Aménagement du territoire Transition écologique

MJ Ray Jun 4, 2024

@bovine3dom @jon 🤦 for complicating an idea where simplicity is a key feature

dogfood Jun 4, 2024

@bovine3dom @jon
Interesting (compared with Deutschlandticket numbers):

> Au total, 700 000 jeunes sont éligibles à cette nouvelle offre et le gouvernement table sur la vente d'environ 60 000 passes. Le coût de la mesure est évalué à un peu moins de 15 millions d'euros, dont 80% seront pris en charge par l'Etat et 20% par les régions

https://www.francetvinfo.fr/economie/transports/le-pass-rail-a-49-euros-par-mois-sera-disponible-mercredi-pour-les-jeunes-de-16-a-27-ans_6584028.html

Le Pass rail à 49 euros par mois sera mis en vente à partir de mercredi pour les jeunes de 16 à 27 ans

Le dispositif couvre l'ensemble des régions françaises, sauf l'Ile-de-France, et sera disponible pour les mois de juillet et août.

Franceinfo

André Sintzoff ✅Jun 4, 2024

@bovine3dom @jon French bureaucracy (as usual, unfortunately)

danimrich Jun 4, 2024

@bovine3dom @jon
This sounds a lot like the ÖBB Sommerticket. We've had this since the 1990s here in Austria.

Lyokolux Jun 4, 2024

@bovine3dom @jon I don't read the 1 ticket per hour limit on the page.

Oliver Blanthorn Jun 4, 2024

@lyokolux @jon oh, I think I misread "un trajet par jour maximum sur un même créneau horaire"

is it saying that you can't book two+ tickets for yourself on the same train? presumably to stop people booking whole compartments for themselves on night trains.

If you can confirm I'll edit the original post :)

Lightning Bjornsson*

evdonia_corner_emblem

@bovine3dom @jon Sounds a bit lame

Guillaume Endignoux Jun 4, 2024

@bovine3dom @jon Of course the headline had to be proud and misleading: "announced by the president" blah blah blah "the Rail Pass gives unlimited access to travel by train", when the conditions clearly put some limits.

I bet they had to launch it this week ahead of the elections...

Also, interesting that they listed Trainline before SNCF, even the ministry admits that SNCF Connect is s*** 😅

Atemu Jun 4, 2024

@bovine3dom @jon

And I thought us Germans were good at coming up with arbitrary rules that don't benefit anyone for the sake of introducing more bureaucracy.

Elodie Vercken (she/her)Jun 5, 2024

@jon @bovine3dom I am sure the government will nevertheless announce triumphantly “illimited train travel for the young this summer”
I immediately pictured the meme “strong dog / whining dog” in my head… #polcom #frenchpol #CEstNotreProjet

Apicultor 🐝Aug 18, 2024

@bovine3dom @jon If there is one thing at which the French truly excel, it is taking something which ostensibly should be simple and complexifying the fuck out of it.

Oliver Blanthorn Aug 18, 2024

@apicultor @jon last I saw was that they'd sold ~1/3 as many passes as they expected.

I hope the lesson they learn is "we need to make public transport simpler" rather than "no-one wants public transport".

An added complication is that if the SNCF guesses that your train will be full, you can't use the pass rail on that train, unlike a normal ticket which can be used on any train.

Oliver Blanthorn Aug 18, 2024

@apicultor @jon Jon, you might be interested to see that there have been a few pass rail stories where France has managed to recreate typical cross-border rail issues within its own borders e.g. https://www.ladepeche.fr/2024/08/14/avec-le-pass-rail-elle-est-censee-beneficier-dun-trajet-de-train-gratuit-mais-la-sncf-lui-demande-de-payer-son-billet-dans-le-lot-12133928.php

> Il n’est pas possible de sélectionner la gratuité et pourtant le trajet inverse, c’est-à-dire Brive Bretenoux est gratuit.

> La ligne [...] circule dans trois régions différentes [...] qui provoque des "difficultés d’organisation et de financement"

SNCF : avec le Pass rail, elle est censée bénéficier d’un trajet de train gratuit mais on lui demande de payer son billet

Le Pass rail est un titre de transport lancé cette année par le gouvernement et géré par les régions. Il permet d’effectuer des trajets TER et Intercités gratuitement. Pourtant, Lola, une Lotoise, a bien payé son...

ladepeche.fr

Thibault Lapers Aug 18, 2024

@bovine3dom @apicultor @jon

Sounds like Brussels > Brussels Airport bus which is in the subscription but the other way round is not : €7.50!

André Sintzoff ✅Aug 18, 2024

@bovine3dom @apicultor @jon According to SNCF weird rules, is it allowed to have a ticket Aurillac - Brive and to board the train at Bretenoux (located between Aurillac and Brive)?

Oliver Blanthorn Aug 18, 2024

@sintzoff @apicultor @jon "split tickets" like that are against the SNCF rules. You have to have at most one ticket per train.

You risk getting fined if you get caught (by e.g. showing all your tickets to the guard)

Oliver Blanthorn Aug 18, 2024

@sintzoff @apicultor @jon terminating/starting your journey early is also against the rules which leads to the insane situation where season tickets are useless for leisure travel on the same line

André Sintzoff ✅Aug 18, 2024

@bovine3dom @apicultor @jon regarding season ticket, it is allowed by SNCF to terminate/start early.

page 103 in https://www.sncf-voyageurs.com/medias-publics/2024-07/tarifs-voyageurs-version-5-juillet-2024-VDEF-FR.pdf

L'abonné peut, soit à l'aller, soit au retour, prendre ou quitter le train à une gare intermédiaire
du parcours pour lequel son abonnement a été souscrit, en abandonnant tout droit au
parcours non effectué.

Oliver Blanthorn Aug 18, 2024

@sintzoff @apicultor @jon thanks, that's interesting, I didn't realise getting off early was allowed. Although that seems to be a special ticket type rather than a normal season ticket?

But getting on at a different stop is not allowed, even if you just got off the train earlier, hence the "abandoning all rights to the rest of the journey" part. Which makes leisure/spontaneous travel pretty much impossible unless you are happy walking back or buying a ticket.

André Sintzoff ✅Aug 18, 2024

@bovine3dom @apicultor @jon this is for "abonnement de travail". As it is valid for unlimited number of travels "ils permettent d'effectuer un nombre de voyages illimité sur le trajet pour lequel ils ont été délivrés." (page 102), it seems OK to get off at one intermediate station and get on later at the same station: two different journeys.

Oliver Blanthorn Aug 18, 2024

@sintzoff @apicultor @jon you're right, sorry, the abonnement de travail does seem to let you get on early/late

> L'abonné peut prendre ou quitter le train à une gare intermédiaire du parcours pour lequel son abonnement a été souscrit

but I think that's different to the normal season tickets, there seems to be a special form for them: https://mmt.vsct.fr/sites/default/files/swt/CPAC/2021-06/Formulaire-Abonnement-Travail.pdf

In practice I am pretty sure that my season ticket couldn't be validated at intermediate stations in PACA, 90% sure I've tried....

Ylönën Aug 18, 2024

@bovine3dom This is not very dissimilar to how SNCF handles Interrail passes and compulsory seat reservations. Needlessly complicated quota and rulesets plus presumably bad service design. @apicultor @jon

Rémi Cardona Aug 18, 2024

@bovine3dom @apicultor @jon even if a left-leaning government is chosen, they will *not* learn the lesson. mark my words.

My bet, they'll just scrap the rail pass. None of the regions wanted it. Unless it comes with a hefty subsidy...

David S (inactive)Aug 18, 2024

@apicultor @bovine3dom @jon the UK is pretty good at that too

Inga stands with 🇺🇦 🇵🇸Aug 18, 2024

@apicultor @bovine3dom @jon and Deutschlandticket is already complexified as fuck compared to 9-euro-ticket...