Kevin BeaumontMay 21, 2024

For those who aren’t aware, Microsoft have decided to bake essentially an infostealer into base Windows OS and enable by default.

From the Microsoft FAQ: “Note that Recall does not perform content moderation. It will not hide information such as passwords or financial account numbers."

Info is stored locally - but rather than something like Redline stealing your local browser password vault, now they can just steal the last 3 months of everything you’ve typed and viewed in one database.

Show threadKevin BeaumontMay 21, 2024

I've written up my thoughts on the Copilot Recall feature in Microsoft Copilot+ PCs

I think it will enable fraud and endanger users, and is not the sign of a company who are committed to security first.

https://doublepulsar.com/how-the-new-microsoft-recall-feature-fundamentally-undermines-windows-security-aa072829f218

How the new Microsoft Recall feature fundamentally undermines Windows security

Yesterday, Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella sat down with the media to introduce a new feature called Recall, as part of their Copilot+ PCs. It takes screenshots of what you’re doing on constantly, by…

DoublePulsar
Show threadKevin BeaumontMay 22, 2024
The UK’s ICO have opened an investigation into Copilot+ Recall. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cpwwqp6nx14o
Microsoft Copilot+ Recall feature 'privacy nightmare'

The ICO wants to know the safeguards around Recall, which can take screengrabs of your screen every few seconds.

BBC News
Show threadKevin Beaumont

Copilot+ Recall has been enabled by default globally in Microsoft Intune managed users, for businesses.

You need to enable DisableAIDataAnalysis to switch it off. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/client-management/manage-recall

Manage Recall for Windows clients

Learn how to manage Recall for commercial environments and about Recall features.

May 22, 2024 at 11:11amWeb
Show threadKevin BeaumontMay 22, 2024
Here’s Copilot+ Recall search in action, showing instant text based search finding a WhatsApp chat and a PDF from 6 months ago being viewed on screen.
Show threadKevin BeaumontMay 22, 2024

Two quick updates -

A) if you disallow recording of a website in Control Panel or GPO, in Chrome it is still recorded - disallow recording only works in Edge browser

B) Firefox and Tor Browser is recorded always, including in private mode - the exception is Hollywood DRM’d videos

Show threadWilMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog I still don’t get what problem or pain point this solves for a user. What does MSFT think is the use case?
Show threadRichard W. Woodley ELBOWS UP 🇨🇦🌹🚴‍♂️📷 🗺️May 22, 2024
@Wil @GossiTheDog
I would never install if I had the choice it but there have been a few times i could have used it when I went to blank screen or the program I was typing in closed unexpectedly. But in that case I would only ever need less than the last hour of use and only need it stored on my own machine and deleted after that hour. Still not worth the risk for the few times it might be of benefit.
Show threadSeanMay 22, 2024
@the5thColumnist @Wil @GossiTheDog That use case is already addressed by buffering snapshots of an application’s memory to disk, no AI required.
Show thread2xfoMay 22, 2024

@Wil @GossiTheDog

Surveillance.

(I think Microsoft has not considered Windows users to be their customers for many years by now, and Silicon valley was initially funded by the US defense department - with whom MS has contracts worth billions. Even Teams is obviously tailored only for managers, you can't actually be productive with it.)

Show threadDaveMay 22, 2024
@Wil @GossiTheDog
Surveillance is a thing I guess, but think of the AI training data they can get out of it.
Show threadGustavo LitovskyMay 23, 2024
@Wil @GossiTheDog insufficient revenue increase
Show threadPhD9May 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog
But of course.....
Show threadmhoyeMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog So... there's just no private-browsing option in there anymore, if you don't use Edge?
Show threadMatthew SkeltonMay 22, 2024

@mhoye @GossiTheDog Recall seems to be a giant data suction pump with no escape.

Use Chrome, Firefox: scrape the data via AI
Use Edge: slurp the data directly

🤮

Show threadNoah CookMay 22, 2024
@mhoye @GossiTheDog Oooh, the feds have already warned them about monopoly shenaningans with web browsers before.
Show threadLandoMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog
2008: How do I remove HDCP from my PS3?
2024: How do I introduce HDCP to my Windows computer?
Show threadJustin ScholzMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog I never would have thought that having a DRMed movie playing on a loop in the background would be the best privacy protection we have
Show threadvandenberglegsMay 23, 2024
@jmovs @GossiTheDog that's genius. Someone needs to make a 1x1 pixel video viewer to have running on screen full time.
Show threadÁsthar con té 🍵⛤ (Elle/They)May 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog 💀
Show threadEvilGinger- Queen of NapsMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog So- File History, except not just your files but _everything_.
I wonder if it will eat up disc space as quickly and hungrily as File History would if you didn't know to make sure that shit was disabled, and just back up to a thumb drive or external drive.
Show threadSimonoidMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog we wouldn't want to infringe on the rights of Hollywood would we 😅
Show threadFennixMay 22, 2024

@GossiTheDog

Days until TOR project figures out how to invoke DRM API over the entire window: ___

#PlaceYourBets #TOR #Windows #Recall

Show threadSPAM  r00t f0lds Team# 258829 May 22, 2024

@GossiTheDog Could you conceivably create a browser extension that just DRMs the whole thing?

/me wonders what the least expensive DRM license is

Show threadargonautMay 23, 2024
@GossiTheDog easy: make a Hollywood movie of all your passwords.
Show threadTheTomasMay 23, 2024
@GossiTheDog ... and I am sure MS will soon find a way to take screens with blacked out area, where the window with DRM protected content is shown.
Show threadTheTomasMay 23, 2024
@GossiTheDog ... not to mention password-managers like Keepass et al.
Show threadJoshMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog what could go wrong if we put glue over the print screen key - Microsoft, Seattle.
Show threadAnthony, of courseMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog wait, what? How is it showing something from 6 months ago? Tell me this is internal/mocked up
Show threadGustavo LitovskyMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog haven’t looked at the details but is there a way to purge a machine from this stuff? I assume disabling doesn’t delete it
Show threadSevorisMay 22, 2024

@GossiTheDog "organisations that aren‘t ready to use AI for historical analysis"

The *gall* to frame this as innevitable.

Also saying the parts out out where "spying on workers" and "replacing workers" is the entire point.

Show threadFediThing May 22, 2024

@Sevoris @GossiTheDog

Yes, this "inevitable" thing instead of choice shows the total lack of respect for consent in modern tech companies.

They really think they can take whatever they want, and no one can stop them.

Show threadAndrew  May 22, 2024
@Sevoris @GossiTheDog glad I'm not the only one who noticed this. The arrogance of these assholes is incredible.
Show threadSevorisMay 22, 2024
@piepants @GossiTheDog by now enough people are hollering about how the industry wants to dress this up as innevitable. Time to get angry.
Show threadthorcikMay 22, 2024
@Sevoris this is my favourite part too
@GossiTheDog
Show threadDelta WyeMay 22, 2024
@Sevoris @GossiTheDog I really hope the potential HIPAA violations end up with Microsoft getting sued into oblivion
Show threadmaggioMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog
Just Enable Disable to disable  
Now say that three times quickly
Show threadGustavo LitovskyMay 22, 2024

@GossiTheDog

Absolutely a nightmare, but I guess MSFT business decisions are more important than user wishes/security

They know most people won't disable this

Show threadThe Penguin of EvilMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog That's a pretty neat way of making a lot of your customers face all sorts of data protection liabilities. Hopefully MS legal get a lot of angry calls from customers.
Show threadmklovenotcyberMay 22, 2024

@etchedpixels @GossiTheDog

"Microsoft has been on a responsible AI journey since 2017, when we defined our principles and approach to ensuring this technology is used in a way that is driven by ethical principles that put people first. "

Show threadmiketcopeMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog @mklovenotcyber @etchedpixels did we say principle? We meant principal! lol sorry LLMs aren’t good with homophones.
Show threadGraham Sutherland / PolynomialMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog oh for fucks sake
Show threadIgnas KielaMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog "Organizations that aren't ready to use AI for historical analysis" is such a wonderful phrase for "anyone who thinks even a little about the consequences of this"
Show threadRyan Makes, DreamscaperMay 24, 2024
@ignaloidas @GossiTheDog are the thinking-about-consequences literati going to be impacted by this directly? If they would have been paying attention, they would not be running hateware
Show threadRaymond Neilson has moved to cosocial.caMay 22, 2024

@GossiTheDog the absolute condescension going on here

Organizations that aren't ready to use AI for historical analysis can disable it until they're ready

It makes me reach for a crowbar

Show threadColin H.May 22, 2024

@delta_vee @GossiTheDog

At least it hasn't quite reached the TechBro Hobson's Choice:
◾ Enable now
◾ Remind me later

Show threadGytis RepečkaMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog So glad I even haven't considered enrolling my own device 
Show threadpublictorstenMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog Of course, they have to buy computers capable of running Recall first :-)
Show threadKevin Karhan May 22, 2024

@GossiTheDog So basically #Recall makes #Windows11 that is managed via #InTune illegal in #Germany, AFAICT...

#NotLegalAdvice

Show threadWouter HindriksMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog Bonkers
Show threadocdtrekkieMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog Won't be deploying any "AI PCs" until we have policy to disable it, but... also I think we can just not buy AI PCs.
Show threadCaptain of the SS El FaroMay 24, 2024
@ocdtrekkie @GossiTheDog at least for about five more minutes
Show threadocdtrekkieMay 24, 2024
@bangskij @GossiTheDog Pricing will likely dictate this for the entire lifetime of this fad. Sort of like when all Windows 8 PCs were supposed to do touch and basically only a handful of touchscreens were sold. The product lines announced by OEMs tell a lot. Like for Dell Latitude they are adding a number to the models to indicate the AI variant like they add a number to indicate their AMD variants, graphics card added variants, and ARM-based variants.
Show threadocdtrekkieMay 24, 2024
@bangskij @GossiTheDog Bear in mind that even as most businesses will buy the standard Intel non-AI model as a matter of annual practice, consumers still just buy the cheapest barebones thing sold at Costco... AI PCs will have zero penetration there because people will still pick the mechanical hard drive if it saves them ten dollars on the purchase price.
Show threadRob Vincent (OLD ACCOUNT)May 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog On top of everything else maddening about this, three decades after Microsoft first brought us clicking "Start" to shut down they've got us enabling a "Disable" setting.
Show threadNick TaylorMay 22, 2024

@GossiTheDog Its one saving grace seems to be that it requires specific hardware, so as long as I never, ever buy a Copilot+ computer I'm safe? Or have I misread that?

(hardware anti-marketing by badly thought-out features. Only in tech.)

Show threadMarjorieRMay 22, 2024
@tienelle @GossiTheDog what you do know is that if your workplace suddenly decided that you all require new Copilot+ computers then they want it so they can spy on you and what you are doing: remembering that on a corporate network all your passwords belong to them.
Show threadRandom Damage 🌻May 23, 2024
@marjolica @tienelle @GossiTheDog software to do that has been around for ages, and doesn't require special hardware
Show threadMedea Vanamonde🏳️‍⚧️ ♀May 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog whew. Thank “Bob” we don’t use Intune
Show threadJayMay 22, 2024
@GossiTheDog how do I tell if my workplace PC is Intune managed?
Show threadsenMay 22, 2024

@jaystephens Settings: Accounts: Access work or school: here it’ll say something along the lines of “Connected to Blah Azure AD/Entra.” Beyond that, Recall is currently limited to Copilot+ ARM based devices.

@GossiTheDog

Show threadJayMay 23, 2024
@sendai @GossiTheDog thanks. I did it the other way by simply chatting to one of the sysadmin team responsible for group policy, AD, etc... but I'll have a look there too so I know what to look for in case this gets rolled out to us.
Show threadsenMay 23, 2024

@jaystephens @GossiTheDog It does need sufficiently performant neural network blocks on die, so it’s currently in something like an open beta on Microsoft’s latest ARM based devices.

But that’ll expand as the NN blocks in AMD Ryzen 8000G and any recent discrete GPU can do the same thing, and non-G Ryzen 9000s will likely have sufficient performant NN block in their IO chiplets, while Intel’s range will have them by their 15/16th gen.