Baldur BjarnasonMay 12, 2024
One of the things that the Stack Overflow brouhaha demonstrates is that it doesn’t matter if a service was founded by people trusted by the community (Atwood and Spolsky) and was broadly community-led. If it’s a VC-funded startup, they will sell out their users at some point.
Show threadBaldur Bjarnason

People keep forgetting that "by developers, for developers" was a big part of Stackoverflow's initial pitch. It was founded by people who most of the community implicitly trusted. They said all the right things. But as soon as they took VC-funding it was just a matter of time.

I think we know better now than to trust something like a VC-funded community site, but remember that SO was founded in 2008 at the tail-end of the Web 2.0 funding bubble

May 12, 2024 at 1:53pmWeb
Show threadTheCityDweller May 12, 2024
@baldur Never ever give any self produced information to any VC or non VC starter Start-up. Would you work for free for millionaires and billionaires? No, people would call you stupid. But on the Internet, people applaud and do exactly this.
Show threadMagnus AhltorpMay 12, 2024
@toor @baldur Every tech startup is part of Big Tech. There are only two ways to exit: be acquired or go bust. That’s what it means to be a startup. It’s fundamentally different from a small company.
Show threadNoah GibbsMay 13, 2024

@toor @baldur Part of the difficulty here is that publishing *any* open-source software is likely to get into their hands. Producing *any* writing that you distribute gives them the writing too.

There are arguably licenses that would help with that problem - AGPL3 for software, maybe? Or Ethical Source License? But mostly you have to rob the commons -- by not contributing -- to avoid the VCs and millionaires getting to use the thing too.

Show threadJason PunyonMay 12, 2024

@baldur Yes, agree with all this.

And there is one difference between this enshittification and all others. We have the data, because we sold out to ourselves before we sold out to the VCs. I hope it can make a difference, but I won't be surprised if it doesn't. It's going to be incredibly difficult for a new Stack Overflow to grow in a world where search engines don't work.

https://seqlite.puny.engineering

SEqlite

Show threadBoudMay 12, 2024

@JasonPunyon @baldur

Looks like 16.9 GiB for stackoverflow.com.sqlite.br (16.9GiB) and roughly 6 GiB for the rest. Maybe people running #SearXNG instances could add searches on data dumps like these?

Show threadAndreas KMay 12, 2024

@baldur Worse, at some point the “trusted people” might want to retire, and will sell.

And then the vulture capitalists will be waiting.

Show threadAndreas KMay 12, 2024

@baldur Practical example: 2 decades ago, we were customers of an excellent, but relative small local ISP. Side benefit, the CTO knew me from my uni days. We could get real technical difficulties solved in record time.

Then their ISP was swallowed by a bigger one. No issue, although our different contracts with the smaller one confused them, but we solved the issue, albeit with the help of their legal department.

Rinse and repeat, and today I'm so happy to be a Magenta Austria customer.

Show threadAndreas KMay 12, 2024
@baldur But at least one learns to control sudden to do physical damage. And one realizes that while the call centre agents are dumb and badly trained, it's not exactly their fault. And so on, sigh.
Show threadBilly SmithMay 17, 2024

@yacc143 @baldur

A start-up only gets VC funding if they can show they will make a profitable exit.

The sell-out is already baked in from the start.

Show threadHeath StewartMay 12, 2024

@baldur I wonder how many Vulture Capitalists have MBAs. Merely a coincidence, likely, but cut from the same cloth.

I knew a person - one of the nicest, thoughtful, and customer-driven people I knew - who got their MBA and completely changed. Then it was all about what's cheapest even though we weren't asked to tighten it belts. Seemed they weren't as well-liked after that.

Show threadPaulMay 13, 2024
@heaths @baldur The venn overlap is probably significant. I’m sure there are “good” MBAs out there, but for me it’s an instant red-flag.
Show threadjnpnMay 14, 2024
@baldur seems like most things rot after some time, we may restore regular burnings to start fresh every 5 years or so