Christina WarrenThe problem with the iPad as as many have pointed out is that the software hampers what it can do unless you’re willing to contort yourself into a very specific workflow. For most casual users those limitations aren’t an issue and the advantages of the form factor outweigh the deficits. But when you charge MBPro money for a device the trade-offs sting. As @jsnell says, the best solution would be to just let us virtualize macOS on an iPad Pro when using it in certain modes https://sixcolors.com/post/2024/05/the-ipad-pro-is-no-longer-the-future-so-whats-next/
Ken Kinder 
@film_girl @jsnell I could see that being different if you started on iPad and it’s what you know. Then the workflow is what you’re used to and arguably the complexity of macOS would not be an upgrade.
Mingo 🦩 Hagen@film_girl @jsnell but Jef Raskin said “No modes!”
@film_girl @jsnell ...or was it Tesler, I forget :)
John Conway@film_girl @jsnell I don't think that would fix the problem. All the apps need to get on-board with freeing their files too.
@john @jsnell honestly, Apple loves to ignore these kinds of edge cases on the preposition that every app will use only Apple frameworks and APIs so I don’t think it would be a blocker at all. The reality would be that some apps might only work in one mode or the other. And as I said, default to iPadOS. Make that the primary. But for Pro users on a Pro device with connected accessories, allow macOS mode to work.
@film_girl @jsnell Sure…. I'm just not sure how that would work in practice.
For example, how would Procreate handle files spread out in project folders outside its sandbox? Putting MacOS in front of that won't help will it? I mean, I will see the files, but I can't move them because it will break Procreate's expectations/limitations.
I guess I think that any use I'd get out of MacOS would need to be backed up with such fundamental changes to the iOS model, that it might be redundant.
@john @jsnell I mean, virtualization allows pass-through access to network and storage components. So you’d just approve permissions to access stuff stored locally to your iPad. But in the case of Procreate, the default for both Mac and iOS of those is iCloud anyway. And the VM wouldn’t be using a separate storage device. Again, there might be *some* edge cases and limitations but that’s why this would be an option, not the only solution.
@film_girl @jsnell
I'm not sure what you’re saying about VM passthroughs. Permission to access could of course be given, but apps on iOS are designed around a different model, right?
Procreate doesn't store it's files in iCloud, you have to export them do that. I think this has to do with file-size problems. It's kinda disastrous really (they are lucky the painting experience is so good).
@film_girl @jsnell I guess what I'm saying is that if they just give up and give us a normal file system, tell app developers that's the way it is, and provide a syncing API for that filesystem, then that pretty much solves my issues with iPad OS.
Jason Snell@john @film_girl I don't think this is on Apple, the filesystem has been exposed for developers and users on iPad for years now. iCloud or on device. Files app. If you're using an app that doesn't let you save there, that's on the developer.
@jsnell @film_girl Well, one of the flagship Pro apps on iPad lets you export to there, but not save. Maybe it's on Procreate, but I do remember there being some file size problem.
In the end I think this is Apple's fault because they led us down this app-centric path to start with. It was never going to work well for multi-application workflows, but they kept hoping. And here we are 14 years later talking about cramming a whole other OS in!
a40YOStudent@film_girl I would love that iPad!
@a40yostudent I think a lot of people would! I understand Apple is probably worried about cannibalizing their respective product lines but they are already doing that. And if I’m honest, Apple could charge MORE for an iPad Pro if they did that. Want to convince me to get a 16GB of RAM iPad Pro? Let me run a containerized or virtualized version of macOS and I will give you that $2000. And I’ll still keep my main MacBook Pro!
MarkV@film_girl @a40yostudent Plot twist: what if they put the virtualized macOS app behind a $9,99 per month subscription? 😈
@markv @a40yostudent I would pay for that so hard. Fuck, give me cloud-based macOS I can use on my iPad seamlessly (so not just via a VNC) and I’ll pay for that!
Jack Wellborn@film_girl @jsnell Two questions:
1. Are windows still the best solution for multi-app productivity?
2. Is it possible to have windows on an 11” screen without sacrificing touchability?
Maybe someone will still figure it out, but I think the past decade tells us the answer is “yes" to 1 and “no” to 2.
Virtualized macOS forfeits question 2, but it would be a distinct mode where touchability isn’t expected. I would also love to see iPadOS support large screens with uninhibited window support.
Jonathan Dechko@jackwellborn @film_girl @jsnell Since the Mac and iPad hardware are essentially equal, I’d like to see Apple move from “choose the hardware for the situation” to “choose the software for the situation”. With Catalyst, they’re halfway there. Going the other direction seems like a policy decision and not a technical limitation.
People who want this already understand the tradeoffs.
@jdechko @film_girl @jsnell I agree. I think Mac Apps running in some distinct mode a la Classic is a good thing specifically because it makes no promises that Mac apps will work as nicely as native iPad ones, and to your point, is a trade off those who care about running Mac apps are way more likely to understand and accept.
@jackwellborn @film_girl This is why I'm advocating for a Mac mode that only works on high-end hardware with keyboard and trackpad attached.
Also, I don't know about uninhibited but iPadOS does support external displays with multiple windows on them decently now.
@jsnell @jackwellborn @film_girl I’m mostly fine with this. M-series iPads already get certain features.
I already use Remote Desktop on my iPad, so even without a hardware keyboard and pointer input would be passable for some scenarios.
macOS on iPad is an escape valve for workflows that fit in to iPadOS. It doesn’t have to be perfect, as long as it can fill in some of the gaps.
jmorris1974@film_girl @jsnell I don’t know that they even need to allow virtualization. They just need to allow iPadOS to become its own thing instead of being basically a fork of iOS. Then they could open up all these desktop possibilities.
David Cohen@film_girl @jsnell I just did two days of work, using Zoom, Teams, Outlook, Word, Adobe PDF and OneDrive.
Not on an iPad,mind - on an Amazon Fire Max 11 with keyboard, that cost half of an entry level iPad with keyboard.
Apple needs to get their tablet OS into the game or one of these days someone is going to disrupt the iPad.
Jmush@film_girl @jsnell My job is 99% email, Slack, Zoom and even I find the iPad too limiting. Outlook for iPad pales compared to the desktop. Zoom can’t screen share only 1 window so when presenting you have to share EVERYTHING on screen. Love my iPad post-6pm though.
Ramón 🇨🇴@film_girl you make some excellent points, and I completely agree. However, I don’t feel price should be a factor in the analysis as we all know that Apple doesn’t care about overcharging for their products, ie: AirPods Max, many Macs, and dare I say ..Apple Vision Pro.
Rick Williams@film_girl @jsnell The iPad and accessories are my ideal computing device. It is such a great package. The only thing keeping it from being near perfect is that when docked to a keyboard I would love it to go into a more MacOS like mode.
Every time they try and add desktop like features to the iPad they make it more complicated and clunky than it needs to be.
Every time they try and add desktop like features to the iPad they make it more complicated and clunky than it needs to be.
@RickWilliams @film_girl I think you've summed it up pretty well.
David Crooks 🏳️🌈@film_girl @jsnell This could even be a throw away line in an event “for more flexibility we support virtualised macOS for our most demanding users”.
People that need/want it would seek it out, and everyone else could continue as before
Alex Hoffmann@film_girl @jsnell heck, I tried the „attach RaspberryPi to iPad and use iPad as input in the past. It was pretty workable once the iPad powered the RP4 through USB-C and I had ethernet over USB figured out.
sukh@film_girl @jsnell it’s mind boggling that even the first M1 iPad Pro is still hampered by this & that was release years ago.
It’s like there’s huge disconnect over there. iPadOS the way it is should never had an M series chip - a great accomplishment for sure but what is the point.
Seeing as Apple are such control freaks with software, a more coherent Apple imo would’ve continued to use the A series chips and gone with “Max” & “Ultra” suffixes over the “x” / “z”
It’s like there’s huge disconnect over there. iPadOS the way it is should never had an M series chip - a great accomplishment for sure but what is the point.
Seeing as Apple are such control freaks with software, a more coherent Apple imo would’ve continued to use the A series chips and gone with “Max” & “Ultra” suffixes over the “x” / “z”