Daring Fireball
★ Making a Mountain Out of Molehill-Sized M4 News
https://daringfireball.net/2024/04/making_a_mountain_out_of_molehill-sized_m4_news
Making a Mountain Out of Molehill-Sized M4 News

“*The entire Mac product line is set for annual speed-bump Apple silicon updates*” is, as far I can tell, the actual story. Not “*Mac sales are in the tank and Apple is overhauling the whole product line to change its focus to AI.*”

Daring Fireball
Apr 22, 2024 at 1:20amDF Tootbot
Show threadDavid H. McCoyApr 22, 2024

@daringfireball

The mystery to me is why Gruber continues to have Gurman on his show when Gurman does his Bloomberg oddball tea leaf analysis.

Show threadCleatus FetusApr 22, 2024

@davidhmccoy @daringfireball

When has Gurman been on his Podcast? I’ve noticed he’s been conspicuously absent

Show threadDavid H. McCoyApr 22, 2024

@CleatusFetus @daringfireball

Maybe it’s been a while. I have them recorded.

Show threadCleatus FetusApr 22, 2024
@davidhmccoy @daringfireball To my knowledge they’ve never been on a podcast together. If I’m wrong please send me the episode number I’d kill to see what that would be like.
Show threadDavid H. McCoyApr 22, 2024

@CleatusFetus @daringfireball

Gruber, you willing to chime in? When was the last time Mr. Gurman appeared?

Show threadDelricApr 22, 2024
@CleatusFetus @davidhmccoy @daringfireball expanding your knowledge https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mark+gurman+daringfireball+podcast&t=iphone&ia=web
mark gurman daringfireball podcast at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

Show threadCleatus FetusApr 22, 2024

@delric @davidhmccoy @daringfireball

I understand that John links to Mark all the time but the original question is specifically about John hosting Mark on his Podcast.

Your link doesn’t help with that original question

Show threadDavid H. McCoyApr 22, 2024

@CleatusFetus @delric @daringfireball

Seemed like at least one. I thought there was an appearance after the Bloomberg spoofed chip story, but I will say I might be wrong.

Ultimately, if he hasn’t appeared, cheerfully withdrawn. I’m just not a fan of his analysis.

Show threadDelricApr 26, 2024
@CleatusFetus @davidhmccoy @daringfireball it does if you look at the results. i can lead you to water but i can’t make you drink
Show threadDavid H. McCoyApr 26, 2024

@delric @CleatusFetus @daringfireball

We’re all buddies. 😉

Show threadDelricApr 26, 2024
@davidhmccoy @CleatusFetus @daringfireball doesn’t change what i said. the top results literally contain the answer
Show threadDavid H. McCoyApr 23, 2024

@delric @CleatusFetus @daringfireball

Was listening to older podcasts for The Talk Show and it had Gurman. Not a recent show.

Show threadDavid H. McCoyApr 23, 2024

@CleatusFetus @daringfireball

Was listening to older podcasts for The Talk Show and it had Gurman. Not a recent show.

Show threadDelricApr 22, 2024
@davidhmccoy @daringfireball wouldn’t make a difference, Gruber doesn’t challenge the ideas of guests. Nilay Patel is the editor of Verge (home of terrible Apple takes) and frequent guest.
Show threadMathias af JochnickApr 23, 2024
@davidhmccoy @daringfireball I think he was last on a live wwdc almost 10 years ago when he was still at 9to5mac. #122
Show threadDavid H. McCoyApr 23, 2024

@2happy1sad @daringfireball

Clearly thinking of someone else.

Edit

Was listening to older podcasts for The Talk Show and it had Gurman. Not a recent show.

Show threadStevieApr 23, 2024
@davidhmccoy Continues? When was the last appearance?
Show threadDavid H. McCoyApr 23, 2024

@swgs

Clearly thinking of someone else, possibly Patel.

Edit

Was listening to older podcasts for The Talk Show and it had Gurman. Not a recent show.

Show threadFelix LapalmeApr 22, 2024
@daringfireball @gruber if the neural engine truly matters on the Mac, the quickest thing they could probably do is bump the number of cores it has on M-series chips. It's a little absurd that the M3 Max has the same number of neural engine cores as an iPhone. Makes the neural engine totally useless on a Mac, where the GPU needs to be used for any serious AI use (though afaik, even if they did this, LLMs can't run on the neural engine right now, they're missing features)
Show threadGreg KaplanApr 22, 2024
@daringfireball Spot on. But stock market still responds to this stuff. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Show threadDelricApr 22, 2024
@kaplag @daringfireball indeed. Mr Market don’t care
Show threadMartin the paranoid androidApr 22, 2024
@daringfireball @gruber +be #dftypo
Show threadVertanaApr 22, 2024
@daringfireball I hear it’s going to be their best CPU EVER. And they think we’re going to love it.
Show threadTom RossApr 22, 2024

@daringfireball Under that schedule, CPU speed of the Ultra desktops vs. the Max notebooks becomes are concern. Mac Studio and Mac Pro would struggle to outperform the MacBook Pro for most of the year.

https://9to5mac.com/2023/11/09/every-apple-processor-compared-as-m3-max-matches-m2-ultra/

Every Apple processor compared, as M3 Max matches M2 Ultra - 9to5Mac

Macworld has updated its tables in which the performance of every Apple processor is compared – from the A13 Bionic...

9to5Mac
Show threadDamon FergusonApr 27, 2024
@tomrossberlin @daringfireball My thoughts exactly. To juice pro desktop sales, it would be better for them to get Mcurrent+1 Max and Ultra-based desktops out before the MacBook Pro gets Mcurrent+1 Pro and Max chips. For this reason I’m hoping the Mac Studio and Mac Pro M4 Max and Ultra will make an appearance at WWDC, even if just to be announced but start shipping later in the summer. People will still buy M4 MBPs for portable power no matter their release timing.
Show threadLeon CowleApr 22, 2024

@daringfireball “No one is postulating that M4-based Macs will offer AI features that require M4 chips.”

Ok, @gruber, I’ll go out on a limb and predict exactly that.

Show threadJohn GruberApr 23, 2024
@leoncowle It's certainly possible, but that would be huge news.
Show threadDamon FergusonApr 27, 2024
@leoncowle @daringfireball @gruber Or sometimes, apparently no hardware change at all. Does anyone know what exactly the Apple Watch Ultra 2 and Series 9 got hardware-wise for adding the Double Tap finger jesture that prevented it from being added by watchOS update to the Ultra 1 or Series 7? It certainly wasn’t due to “battery life”, at least certainly not for the Ultra 1.
Show threadJohn GruberApr 27, 2024
@leoncowle Like what sort of feature? Even if Apple were going to make certain AI features exclusive to recent chips, I'd think they'd at least wait a year and roll such features out with support for one generation prior.
Show threadLeon CowleApr 27, 2024
@gruber I have read no rumors to this effect, but it would not surprise me in the least if, like the Neural Engine built into the SOC or hardware H264/5 decoding, Apple also builds in an “AI Engine” into the SOC, optimized to on-device LLM training and/or execution. Perhaps this cycle is too soon, though, I’ll grant you that, given the 2-3 year design timeframe of new chips.
Show threadJoe LionApr 22, 2024
@daringfireball “With Apple’s in-house chips, the memory is more deeply integrated into the main processor, making it harder to add more.” I feel like this point cannot be emphasized enough. Even saying “more deeply integrated with the processor” really underplays what a fundamental shift the M-series requires, moving from DDR sticks of RAM to package-on-package LPDDR. A 512GB option will be a miracle, but it’s going to be a LONG time before capability to go beyond that
Show threadMichael CritzApr 22, 2024
@daringfireball @gruber Oh, man! Wait until Gurman hears what a “Neural Engine” actually does.
Show threadunderfloApr 22, 2024
@daringfireball maybe missing a “be” in this sentence? If all this pans out, it will indeed be news, but the news will that Apple has successfully gotten the entire Mac hardware lineup onto an annual upgrade cycle.