ooliIsrael is killing people based on being in the same Whatsapp group
landIsrael aimed to spark a regional conflict to avoid facing genocide allegations. However, Iran didn’t buy into their PR tactics.
What group currently calling Jihad against Israel has not openly recieved funding from the Iranian state, going back to 1992?
The answer is none. Every group calling for Jihad and Jewish genocide in the region has received monetary support from Iran.
Why is that?
Because Israel and Iran are enemies and have been in a state of semi-war for ages?
So Iran can fund jihad against Judaism itself, and it’s Israel’s fault?
Talking about the “initial fault” in this conflict is moot. We’re at a point, where both sides can reasonably point to some events in the past and blame the other side for the conflict.
Fact is, Iran is a theocratic dictatorship and its allies are religious fanatic militias, while Israel is a liberal democracy, supported by pretty much all of The West™. Of course the expectations towards Israel regarding human rights and international law are slightly higher. And let’s be honest, what Israel is doing right now is certainly not helping calming the situation, or even making long term peace.
I don’t know if I fully buy that argument.
If somebody supports Israel, they are supporting a genocide based on perceived land needs of the Israeli people.
If somebody supports Palestine, they are supporting a genocide based on the outright extermination of the Jewish people, funded by Iran and Qatar.
I don’t think we can get anywhere unless all of us as leftists acknowledge that the Jews of Israel will be in the same position the people of Palestine are in right now if we don’t thread the needle of support and guess what? We are not fucking threading that needle.
If somebody supports Palestine, they are supporting a genocide based on the outright extermination of the Jewish people, funded by Iran and Qatar.
What? No significant player in Palestine is trying to do that.
If we pretend the “elected” government of Palestine is in significant than sure.
Uh... Hamas has tried to make peace with Israel before. Multiple times. Including two attempts to hand over Gaza to the PA and start peace negotiations. Israel has refused all of them.
Hamas killed all the PA in Gaza after the takeover in 2006. when did they ever attempt to give gaza back?
So first, "Hamas killed all the PA in Gaza" ignores that it was the PA trying to overturn the result of democratic elections. Not saying Hamas didn't do fucked up things either, but let's not forget how it happened.
That said, there were many efforts for reconciliation between Hamas and Fatah.
nothing like throwing people off of roofs to show how democratic you are
israel being against reconcilliation does not effect hamas, they did it because they wanted to.
Israel was literally funding Hamas in order to drive a wedge between Palestinians and stop chances of a unified leadership arising. Netanyahu admitted to as much. It is an Israeli media source, inb4 muh bias.
the real reason he bribed them was to buy quite to appear as someone who is “strong against terorrism”
about the funding, so i guess hamas had no choice but to murder people in order to recieve more money. after all its not like they recieve millions in aid from all over world, the only funding is bibi so he gets to tell them how to act and who to kill
Funding from “all over the world” doesn’t quite slap the same as funding from your nemesis. While Hamas may not receive play by play instructions from Israel, it cannot be denied that they were allowed to thrive to act as counterweight to more moderate elements and viewed as “an asset” (Smotrich’s words in 2016) to keep Palestinian unity movement divided fighting amongst themselves. This worked fairly well too until recent events, whereby Netanyahu and his like were able to benefit politically by waving the boogeyman of their own making instead of making a genuine effort at peace.
so despite having ulterior methods of funding, hamas killing their opposition is because of Israel approved Qatari payments. despite the payments being made a **decade **after the violent takeover? did the money go back in time and change the election results?
While Hamas may not receive play by play instructions from Israel, it cannot be denied that they were allowed to > thrive to act as counterweight to more moderate elements
they were allowed to thrive because Israel left Gaza and let them sort it out. if you look back to 2005, you will see that israel (along other western countries) openly supported fatah over hamas. from wiki(emphasis mine):
Hamas leader Ismail Haniya formed a new PA government on 29 March 2006 comprising mostly Hamas members. Fatah and other factions had refused to join, especially as Hamas refused to accept the Quartet’s conditions, such as recognition of Israel and earlier agreements. **As a result, a substantial part of the international community, especially Israel, the United States and European Union countries, refused to deal with the Hamas government and imposed sanctions **
compare to the PA in the same time(still wiki,emphasis mine):
According to the IISS, the June 2007 escalation was triggered by Hamas’ conviction that the PA’s Presidential Guard, loyal to Mahmoud Abbas, was being positioned to take control of Gaza. The US had helped build up the Presidential Guard to 3,500 men since August 2006. The US committed $59 million for training and non-lethal equipment for the Presidential Guard, and persuaded Arab allies to fund the purchase of further weapons. Israel, too, allowed light arms to flow to members of the Presidential Guard. Jordan and Egypt hosted at least two battalions for training
you can find many other instances of Israel supporting PA over hamas over the years. by the time bibi allowed funding to flow to hamas they had unquestioned military and civilian control in gaza.
Israel isn’t the one rejecting the cease fire right now.
Uh... They are? Hamas has stated what they consider an acceptable ceasefire by listing their bare minimum "if we don't get this there's no point" demands and Israel keeps rejecting them. It's Israel refusing to compromise here.
Also you ignored my reply.
Uhm… No.
Hamas rejected the last ceasefire because they won’t hand over 40 hostages.
At least keep current of the news if you are pretending you care.
How does that contradict what I said?
If Hamas cared about their people (they don’t. That has been clear for 20 years), they would accept a cease fire, which only requires they give back the hostages.
Again, they've been very clear why they're rejecting the ceasefire. A temporary ceasefire "extended into something more enduring" is a bold-faced lie by Biden, as shown in the first ceasefire.
Why are you trusting the words of terrorists hiding in a Qatari skyscraper instead of standing with their people and leading the fight?
Hamas keeps rejecting the ceasefire because they are fighting a propaganda war, and dead Palestinians is the way to do it.
Why are you trusting the words of terrorists hiding in a Qatari skyscraper instead of standing with their people and leading the fight?
You do realize Hamas has Gaza leadership too right? Both have different roles.
Your response to the claim of them being terrorists is that some of them have other roles?
Jesus.
What the... You're not even making sense anymore.
You guys don’t have to engage with me, unless its like a quota thing that needs to be hit.
equivocating ‘the Jewish peolle’ with kapo genocide orcs doing 'protocols of the elders of zionc larp is antisemitic as fuck. what do you expect from a bunch of literal Hitler apologists though?
uh, not the Jewish people. I support Palestine, and I’m not down for killing the guy who runs the donuy shop, or the guy at the deli, or even two of my ex girlfriends.
equivocating ‘the Jewish people’ with ‘israel’ is blatantly antisemitic and potentially genocidal. stop.
I don’t believe you truly didn’t understand what I said. I think you just wanted to tell the person concerned about antisemitism that he is the true antisemite.
You will be blocked if you try that on me again. So please either try good faith dialog in your next response or don’t bother responding.
they’re not concerned about antisemitism if they’re equating Jewish identity with a genocidal fascist apocalypse cult that draws protocols of the elders of Zion fan art on everyone’s maps.
well, not in the direction one would hope they’re concerned.
You were told you would be blocked if you didn’t stop playing that game.
while Israel is a liberal democracy, supported by pretty much all of The West™.
Man Israel has more than 5 million people under an occupation that denies them any and all human rights. They're not a liberal democracy in any stretch of the word.
Israel is an authoritarian state, they throw people in jail for disagreeing with the government, or just being Palestinian / Muslim.
authoritarian, apartheid, theocratic, genocidal and willing to start world war three over looking bad
Iran is authoritarian and theocratic, and the people there don’t love that.
I feel like one of these things is worse than the other. indefensibly, past the fucking moral event horizon, ‘kill them all and then shoot the bodies to make sure they’re dead’ levels of worse.
world war three isn’t, like, acceptable. theres no defense for that sjit, especially with some of the military hardware they now have.
lol “liberal democracy”. they’re as homophobic and more transphobic. they’re howling fascists that make the Nazis look like noobs (learning from history I guess. in a the worst ways). they don’t have virtue.
but iranisnt trying to start world war three, and they aren’t trying to do a genocide, so theyre the sensible allies here.
Literally yes. The state of anti-Semitism in the middle east is a direct cause of Israeli Apartheid.
You think hatred of Jews among Muslims started after the creation of Israel?
That is ahistorical nonsense, and you know it.
Do you wish to try again?
You think hatred of Jews among Muslims started after the creation of Israel?
Not after the creation of Israel, after Zionists started trying to take Palestine in 1917.
Conveniently ignoring about a thousand years of history there, little buddy.
Go on, what's that history?
There were 300,000 Jews there when tbs Mamluks took power and 5,000 when the Ottomans took power.
What happened? Did the Jews disappear?
You can literally look up what happened on Wikipedia, but the short of it is Mongol invasions and Mamluk misrule. I mean two thirds of the population left, that shit got everyone (though it admittedly got Jews and Christians more). Then it was victim to more Ottoman misrule. Not saying these are good things, but speaking as a Muslim Middle Eastern guy the scathing hatred for Jews in the modern Middle East is unlike anything from before the 20th century, and the stereotypes you'll usually see (mainly the deceptive Jew that can't be trusted to hold a promise and Jews controlling the world) are direct results of Zionist actions.
Where do you get the 300,000 figure?
A quick read through Wikipedia showed significantly lower number.
Prior to the Muslim conquest of Palestine (635–640), Palaestina Prima had a population of 700,000, of which around 100,000 were Jews and 30-80,000 were Samaritans,[67] with the remainder being Chalcedonian and Miaphysite Christians.[5][68][69]
The pace of conversion to Islam among the Christian, Jewish, and Samaritan communities in Palestine varied during the early period (638–1098),[70] and opinions vary regarding the extent of Islamization during the early Islamic period.[71] While some argue Palestine was already majority Muslim by the time of arrival of the First Crusade, others contend that Christians were still in the majority and the process of mass adoption of Islam took place only from the 13th century onwards, during the Mamluk period.[71]
I got my number from the same article, under the Mamluk portion.
Are we totally going to ignore the fact that the Mamluks and other Turks were foreigners who only had Islam to try to bond with the region they were taking over. It’s not like it was Levantine Jews vs Levantine Muslims.
It’s a lot like how the US helps Israel because it has the same western values despite religion.
Conveniently ignoring about a thousand years of history there, little buddy.
nothing makes Hezbollah seem reasonable quite like hezbarrah does.
Bot account?
no just something a lot of hezbarites need to hear.
And Iran is not an apartheid state?
Uh yes? Iran is oppressive as fuck, but yeah they're not an Apartheid state, and hell even if they were. At least Iranian women get citizenship and the right to a fair-ish trial.
Bro gtfo, kurds have suffered under Iranian regime for more than a century, israel palestine conflict doesn’t even come close.
Yeah you get the fair trail as long as your aren’t kurd.
israel palestine conflict doesn’t even come close
Man we have a genocide going on in Gaza.
Admittedly I don't know much about the state of Kurds in Iran, but again we have a literal genocide in Gaza. What little I have read doesn't mention anything that intense in Iran.
I’m not denying the ongoing genocide, but acting like Iran is some kind of good faith actor in the region is total bullshit.
no its not close. fuck Iran’s givernment generally, not the good guys, but killing Nazis is always good. everyone gets points for that even if they otherwise suck.
literally yes. they didn’t give a shit before the 'all Jews are aligned with israelc protocols of the elders of Zion fanfic those fuckers are pushing.
and then making their entire existence genocide and atrocities.
Someone needs to read a little history
yeah, fuck the government of Iran generally, but I support any decision they make here. anyone can get points for stopping genocide and killing Nazis. literally anyone. even Nazis! that has happened before!
if the kapostanis stopped saying every Jew is aligned with them, or people stopped listening to them, I’m sure there would be a lot less antisemitism.
the problem is the Zionist genocide orcs. its always the Zionist genocide orcs scrawling 'protocols of the elders og zionc fan art on our maps, then defending themselves from the things they’re doing from the boom they’re using as a checklist by saying we’re just copying a dumb book.
Woah there buddy, I think you mistook me as somebody interested in unintelligible rants.