Cory DoctorowGive the people what they want
#mobile #mcommerce #AppsAreCrap #AppsAreWebPagesSkinnedInEnoughIPToFelonizeMods #privacy #AccountFatigue #AppFatigue
ipsquiggle@pluralistic
I love that parking, of all things, seems to have taken the biggest about-face here.
I love that parking, of all things, seems to have taken the biggest about-face here.
Tony Wells(UK) Car park companies managed to build shittified apps right from the start. We even had situations of needing to download yet another app for a different parking company, but finding the mobile data signal was so weak in the car park, it wouldn't finish the download or complete a transaction. Many are reverting to no app contactless card payment.
jaark@TonyJWells @ipsquiggle @pluralistic
It's not like the pay machines weren't already shit. Last two times I tried to use a NCP pay machine it wouldn't give me a receipt, and their customer support doesn't respond.
Tried their app the other week. It let me into and out of the car park, no receipt but it hasn't actually charged me and there's no record of me ever being their in the app either.
It's not like the pay machines weren't already shit. Last two times I tried to use a NCP pay machine it wouldn't give me a receipt, and their customer support doesn't respond.
Tried their app the other week. It let me into and out of the car park, no receipt but it hasn't actually charged me and there's no record of me ever being their in the app either.
@jaark @ipsquiggle @pluralistic
Pay machines have always been a bit dodgy and it's an industry with a poor record of customer service, and confusing rules, but dogged determination to pursue people for 'fines'(not actually fines), and use debt collectors and courts, which can turn a small payment into a very big one.
Dan Aukes@TonyJWells @ipsquiggle @pluralistic
oh man, just got back from the UK... To add to it, try using a foreign credit card that needs the extra verification step...in the rain.
oh man, just got back from the UK... To add to it, try using a foreign credit card that needs the extra verification step...in the rain.
@danaukes @ipsquiggle @pluralistic
The inability of my rainy country to provide even the basic shelter at places you begrudgingly need to stand around still shocks me.
mrFred489@TonyJWells @danaukes @ipsquiggle @pluralistic to be fair, if you are paying for car parking you could just sit in the car.
Andreas K@mrFred489 @TonyJWells @danaukes @ipsquiggle @pluralistic
If you remember your licence plate. If not, exiting the car is rather natural.
And I wonder what the solution of all these parking providers is for drivers without a smartphone? Or a phone without Google Play or Apple App Store access?
@yacc143 @mrFred489 @danaukes @ipsquiggle @pluralistic
If you cant use the app, you have to phone them, groan. Some places offer a 'Paypoint' option where you need to wander around the town shops looking for the one with a terminal, usually newsagents or off-licences. The massive variation in options and rules and exceptions is probably what generates the big profits.
grtyvr@danaukes @TonyJWells @ipsquiggle @pluralistic or being in a foreign country and trying to explain to the Polizia Municipale that "macchina mangare mi carte" when they don't speak English and you don't speak Italian.
Colin Rosenthal ✡️🕎 ❤️🇮🇱❤️ 🕎✡️
Hamish M (VK3FSB)@TonyJWells @ipsquiggle @pluralistic you're lucky to still have the contactless card option. We have places in Melbourne where the choice is app or coins. And of course there's at least 3 different apps in use across the city's public parking due to different local governments.
@hmoffatt @ipsquiggle @pluralistic
We have potentially 30 different parking apps as local councils and businesses contracted out the work across the country, it's a big business with big profits.
Dwev@TonyJWells @hmoffatt @ipsquiggle @pluralistic My most recent annoyance was parking in a **free** 2 hour lot, where I was there for 20 mins, and got a fine because I didn’t check in with the app. Predatory.
@dwev @hmoffatt @ipsquiggle @pluralistic
But how would they make massive profits if they didn't have a petty and obscure rule?
@TonyJWells @dwev @ipsquiggle @pluralistic With 30 different apps I think we can safely say most of them aren't innovating and are just in it for share of the money.
@hmoffatt @TonyJWells @ipsquiggle @pluralistic I think there is *some* innovation though. Other car parks in my area are using LPNR, which I actually see as a convenience since the start and end times are automatic, and I don’t have to think about it. That said, it also lulls me into not thinking about it at places where there is no LPNR, and I end up getting fined. I guess there is also the privacy question about LPNR records, and how that is used. Do these companies have a profile of my car and where it goes on what days? Is this a real concern?
Neil Bartlett 🇬🇧 🇪🇺 🇺🇦@TonyJWells @hmoffatt @ipsquiggle @pluralistic If they're honest, the majority of drivers just want the end of parking fees. Online payments make a lot of sense (physical machines and cash handling are very expensive) but the fragmentation is the killer.
gz@hmoffatt @TonyJWells @ipsquiggle @pluralistic
For meters, I always have a bag of coins in my car as I won't use apps and half the time cards don't work. In parking garages, I'll use bills, if they'll take them, while a card is the last resort. If they only accept payment through an app, I'll go elsewhere.
For meters, I always have a bag of coins in my car as I won't use apps and half the time cards don't work. In parking garages, I'll use bills, if they'll take them, while a card is the last resort. If they only accept payment through an app, I'll go elsewhere.
DecaturNature@pluralistic I recently came across street parking that was app-only. It really bugged me. I need to write to my city council about that.
M1ke@pluralistic so much frustration over the years trying to do something simple like pay for a one time product. Restraunt ordering, parking payments, buying entry to somewhere. Install this app, now sign up, set a password, type this SMS verification, WHATS YOUR FIRST PET'S MOTHER'S MAIDEN NAME?!
Just give me a qr code or let me type some unique identifier, take my card details, take my money and move on
The Penguin of Evil@m1ke @pluralistic QR codes can be are a very very bad idea because any clown can paste a QR code to a sign in a car park - and does. Fake phishing phone parking apps are widely deployed. Even in reputable locations people put up QR codes or cover real ones.
In the old days it took talent, like the old man who collected the car parking fees somewhere in North Wales for years until he annoyed someone who complained to the council who said he's not ours....
HalJor 
@pluralistic What if you don't have a (smart) phone? I miss coins.
Nick Dunlavey@haljor @pluralistic
Yep 😕
My elderly mother lives an easy drive from a beach she used to love. They changed payment for parking there to phone only, so she can now only go there when I go with her. So sad.
Yep 😕
My elderly mother lives an easy drive from a beach she used to love. They changed payment for parking there to phone only, so she can now only go there when I go with her. So sad.
Space Invader@pluralistic I’ve made a shocking number of decisions based solely on “Do I need a new app? Do I need a new account?”
If it’s no to both there’s a good chance I’ll say yes.
U.Lancier@spaceinvader @pluralistic
But if it's no, because the app is already installed and the account exists already, then you add more information to that app's owner and enhance your accounts worth for the owner to sell.
So it's a yes for me only if there's NO app and account needed, not just no NEW app or account.
@pluralistic
Guess what? Drivers license renewal just arrived by mail. I can do it online… if I create a DWV account.
Why do I need an account for something I’ll only do once every five years at minimum, and sometimes requires an in-person visit negating usefulness of an account anyway?
Guess I’ll just write a check and renew by mail. I swear I could renew online *without an account* a decade ago.
akiran_n@pluralistic is not a problem in Italy, we just found out we can use the phone for anything other than social networks, pay the parking with it is becoming a thing now.
Ian Hecht 🇨🇦@pluralistic That would be amazing! Saskatoon, a city of around 250,000, has *four* different parking apps for depending on where in the city you park. It's infuriating...
rabble@ianhecht @pluralistic Wellington is the same, 4 apps. And they strongly push you to keep a balance on each one, changing extra if you just pay for what you need each time you park. Do they make their money on the float like Starbucks does?
Dubi is here 
@rabble @ianhecht @pluralistic Toronto's Green P app has a mininum load of $20 to its wallet, and you can't pay directly
Jon Steege@Dubikan @rabble @ianhecht @pluralistic hey it's like the HOV system in Denver! Want to use it for free for actual HOV purpose? You have to buy a $35 dongle and then keep more than $25 in your account all the time! Even if you never use normal toll ever!
Sam Easterby-Smith@rabble @ianhecht @pluralistic I’m going to be annoying and suggest that parking should involve as much pain, friction, expense, and personal data capture as possible… to discourage car use.
😈
😈
Steve Root@samsterby hahaha, I applaud the concept even though I need a car for most things (I train for long journeys if I can, it's a start)
@Sroot 🥰 nice. Trick is to minimise (in a systemic way) said “need” where possible. So I’d probably make your train station parking free, and plough money from parking everywhere else into public transport and active travel infrastructure 👍
@rabble @pluralistic I don't know about the balance part - I don't see any penalties on the app for just paying each time I need parking, but maybe I'm missing it.
RichardMy reckon on the parking app we have here (Wellington NZ) is that it's worth it just for the start/stop pay-only-for-the-time-you-use function alone.
@Richardelwin @pluralistic That would be great - all four (!) of ours are just discrete blocks of time (by the ½ hour, usually).
@ianhecht @pluralistic That would be quite annoying🥺
Ian@pluralistic good to see the car slaves finally have what public transit has had for a decade.
Jeremy@pluralistic there’s a place downtown where I often park and there’s a machine which I use, except it was broken for like 6 months. The parking people told me to use the app (which charges an extra fee each time). I just told them I don’t have space on my phone for the app and I’m not paying the extra fee lol.
@pluralistic What [older] people want is no exclusionary technology barring them from their independence
Krupo@pluralistic I think the charging app landscape for electric vehicles is even worse.
Conversely the Green P app used in Toronto is a smooth experience.
Kat KimbrielI've been offered a half dozen ways to use my phone to pay for things. I am not interested in learning a half-dozen new ways to buy things.
A new study on radio this morning mentioned that these phone/wallet payments cause us to spend more money, and that 11 seconds in savings in time may mean less thought, more purchases.
Sheesh. The things we didn't micro-mention in our SF....
Cy