NCommanderSo, does anyone on Fedi know enough about VAX hardware to know what an idiot proof purchase is?
Like, "so simple, NCommander can do it?"
System will likely be used in a several month long compile job.
The biggest roadblock appears to be how we turn 10BASE2/10BASE5 into something we can plug into a modern network.
Chartreuse@ncommander If the 10BASE5 is over AUI you could just put a 10BaseT transceiver on that connection instead.
Or do a single segment of 10Base5 with a second tap going to a card or hub with an AUI input
retroprom@ncommander Easiest option: an AUI transceiver for RJ45. They’re a bit rare, but good retro folks know that and tend to grab them. On some VAXen they will also require a short AUI breakout cable - but not for the workstations.
Another option would be Cisco gear (mostly the routers, maybe switches) - because they’re cheap, and well-preserved because the hardware had long lifetimes in labs.
Emelia/Emi@ncommander Easiest way I can think of for that part is to locate a hub that has AUI ports, and the necessary transceivers to get baseT out of it. Or, if AUI is close enough to 'genderless' like SFP is, you might just be able to plug two transceivers back-to-back with some crossover wiring?
A cheap 5-port netgear switch will negotiate at 10m half-duplex just fine, which is how I got my Sun lunchbox online (with a baseT transceiver) and from there "it just works" assuming the VAX side is set up to talk the right IP.
Prism@ncommander Allied Telesyn CentreCom hubs are still everywhere for very little money on eBay. Some models can take AUI transcievers that convert to 10BASE2 and some have it built-in.
DrScriptt@ncommander please clarify which physical connection you have on the VAX, I’ve seen multiple options; AUI / 10Base5 / 10Base2.
There are media transceivers to go from AUI to just about anything else 10Base’.
10Base5 is more rare but available and can be possibly adapted to 10Base2.
10Base2 is relatively easy to adapt to 10Base-T with many options; direct media transceivers, hubs, switches, and routers.
A Linux / ‘BSD box will do nicely too.
[tj] - knows what your packets are thinking@ncommander some coax and some terminators
lopta@ncommander Surely any VAX is old enough to have questionable reliability/lifespan? Simple is good. Vaguely remember hearing the VaxStation 4000/VLC took standard SIMMs. #DECVAX
MVNDVS PATEAT@ncommander I know a guy, who has several.. Might even give it to you for the cost of shipping... but he's currently up in the adorondaks off grid, left his flip phone at the repair shop.. He won't be back until Wednesday...
E-mail matt -at- piusbird dot space, with what you're looking for and i'll see what i can do.. I assume a microvax would be easist
@piusbird You've got mail.
@ncommander didn't reccive anything ye
@piusbird I sent it to the wrong email, check it now
@ncommander Technically, workstations are the simplest, and nothing beats a VAXstation 4000 VLC - but those are slow, and have small memory. On the upside, they have SCSI - like most of the 3100/4000 workstations. They all give serial console if you remove the keyboard.
But: I’d use SIMH for compiling. It is a LOT faster and more convenient. Licensing may be a question of jurisdiction (for VMS and Ultrix).
@retroprom This is NetBSD/10 so licenses aren't an issue. However, I'm having serious stability issues with SIMH.
The idea is to livestream the several months it will take for NetBSD/vax to fully self-host itself.
We were somewhat jokingly discussing doing this on RL, but I do have someone who's willing to host it.
@ncommander Hm. I don’t have a machine anymore. The OpenBSD project used to run one, I think. You could ask them. I might be able to ask some people around here.
@retroprom well, a few offers and emails have been sent, but if you want to check, maybe we'll do a massive distcc party with as many VAXes as possible doing ... I dunno, building OpenOffice?
@ncommander I may also be able to advise with SIMH to some degree. I had some versions really stable with VMS. It’s best to use the “microvax3900” model, the open-SIMH fork, and possibly a picked commit. Many versions had minor boot/firmware crashes that are safe to ignore (you just need a workaround).
@retroprom The problem I've had is SIMH seems unstable. I tried the version in Ubuntu, but its broken on amd64 (not surprising)
I tried SIMH 4.x, which appears to remove the generic vax emulator I was using and uses weird syntax. OpenSIMH git current worked, but breaks into NetBSD's kernel debugger on start, and I've had it panic doing nothing but idling.
@ncommander You need to use git versions. I’m not sure if open-SIMH has made releases, but SIMH was always way behind. It’s not even worth trying for VAX.
In the new naming scheme, the old “vax” is called “microvax3900”. This is a late VAX, and the best-maintained in SIMH AFAIK. It worked great, over months, with suspends, even on a laptop.
About the open-simh crashes, I don’t know. You may need a developer to fix that - but I doubt that it’s a huge issue.
jiub (old account)@ncommander the device to convert 10base2 to 10baseT is called a media converter. looks like they're pretty widely available.
or maybe as a half assed version you could get an old PC, put a 10base2 ethernet card, a 10baseT card (well twisted pair, doesn't need to be 10 mbit ofc), and configure it as a router
kgbvax@ncommander I ran apache https on VMS a decade ago on a Micro VAX II for giggles.And I have very little prior VMS experience. You can do it, too!