Mastodawn

Angel29100 Mar 15, 2024

Bread and Circuses

They yell at us: "Stop being a doomer! You have to give people hope!"

To which I respond with what Greta Thunberg says: "I don't want your hope. I don't want you to be hopeful. I want you to panic. I want you to feel the fear I feel every day. And then I want you to act!"

Along those lines, I strongly recommend this superb new essay from author and climate campaigner Jonathon Porritt, in which he explains that mainstream climate scientists, by insisting we should always be positive and hopeful, run the risk of becoming the new climate deniers.

Here is a brief summary...
_________________________

1. The speed with which the climate is now changing is faster than (almost) all scientists thought possible.

2. There is now zero prospect of holding the average temperature increase this century to below 1.5°C; even 2°C is beginning to slip out of reach. The vast majority of climate scientists know this, but rarely if ever give voice to this critically important reality.

3. At the same time, the vast majority of people still haven’t a clue about what’s going on – and what this means for them and everything they hold dear.

4. The current backlash against existing (already wholly inadequate) climate measures is also accelerating – and will cause considerable political damage in 2024. Those driving this backlash represent the same old climate denial that has been so damaging over so many years.

5. The science-based institutions on which we depend to address this crisis have comprehensively failed us. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change is incapable of telling the whole truth about accelerating climate change; the Conference of the Parties (under the UN Framework Convention on Climate Change) has been co-opted by the fossil fuel lobby to the point of total corruption.

6. By not calling out these incontrovertible realities, mainstream scientists are at risk of becoming the new climate deniers.
_________________________

Read the whole thing -- https://www.jonathonporritt.com/mainstream-climate-science-the-new-denialism/

#Science #Environment #Climate #ClimateChange #ClimateCrisis #ClimateEmergency

Mainstream Climate Science: The New Denialism? - Jonathon Porritt

This is a bit of a long one! So here’s my “Executive Summary” so you can decide whether to commit the time to the rest of it: mainstream climate scientists run the risk of becoming the new climate deniers.

Jonathon Porritt

Alexander Goeres 𒀯 Mar 13, 2024

I want you to panic
this is the worst. people in panic are absolutely not reliable. they can't make plans. they have no foresight. they don't think and can't reflect ... people should absolutely not panic. and actively avoid those voices that try to make them panic ... people in panic can't do anything. and we need to do a lot to fight further climate change ...

Kim Spence-Jones 🇬🇧😷Mar 14, 2024

@jabgoe2089 Yes and no. People in denial do nothing at all. And some of us do great things when panicked.

Rajnhildo Ursidino

evdonia_corner_emblem

@jabgoe2089 panic is the only way anyone has the response times needed.

ToddZ Ⓥ Mar 15, 2024

I think the rhetorical "panic" can be taken in context to mean "understand the gravity and take action," not a suggestion to flail about wildly.

floydgump Mar 13, 2024

@breadandcircuses I don't sugar coat sh--- .Yeah many on the Titanic probably believed everything was fine too.

Benjamin Fry Mar 13, 2024

@breadandcircuses the common issue I see in climate “doomerism” is that while the articles are good at raising concern, there’s often little advice on exactly what people should do when they’re told to “act”.

Simple things like using transit, biking for more of your local needs, reducing driving, avoiding any plastics, etc. Basically, people need to be told how to live a decent lifestyle.

cognitively accessible math Mar 13, 2024

@bluejekyll @breadandcircuses Most of those "simple" things are not simple. We've got car culture, single use stuff ***everywhere***

Benjamin Fry Mar 13, 2024

@geonz @bluejekyll @breadandcircuses you’ve got to start somewhere. People’s dependence on cars is something they can change if they want to. It’s also something they can help fix locally by working with your local governments to get safer streets for non-car users.

Single use stuff is something you can choose not to buy, carry a water bottle with you all the time for example. These choices are simple, even if it makes some things less convenient.

@bluejekyll @geonz @breadandcircuses "People's dependence on cars is something they can change if they want to" is something that's only true from a position of extreme privilege. For most that's simply not an option. Want to make it an option? Step 1 is to bring salaries in line with housing cost and tax the living hell out of people holding multiple properties to make "investment" in housing unprofitable. If people can live closer to work without spending millions you'll have less driving.

cognitively accessible math Mar 13, 2024

@raptor85 @bluejekyll @breadandcircuses Yes. The whole "within our current structures individuals just need to do better" is simply mistaken. The math doesn't work.

Benjamin Fry Mar 13, 2024

@geonz @raptor85 @bluejekyll @breadandcircuses most people could bike in the US for their food needs, “… the median distance to the nearest food store for the overall U.S. population was 0.9 miles, with 40 percent … living more than 1 mile from a food store.”

https://www.ers.usda.gov/amber-waves/2019/june/us-shoppers-access-to-multiple-food-stores-varies-by-region/

USDA ERS - U.S. Shoppers’ Access to Multiple Food Stores Varies by Region

ERS researchers recently calculated distances between households and the nearest and third-nearest food stores. Distance to the third-nearest store gives a sense of consumer choice and the competition facing the nearest store. The median distance to the third-nearest food store for the overall U.S. population was 1.7 miles in 2015; for rural residents, this distance was 6.1 miles.

cognitively accessible math Mar 14, 2024

@bluejekyll @raptor85 @breadandcircuses and the infrastructure to get there? Is it safe? Or do pedestrians and cyclsts die regularly doing that?

cognitively accessible math Mar 14, 2024

@bluejekyll @raptor85 @breadandcircuses (the answer is yes. )

Benjamin Fry Mar 14, 2024

@geonz @bluejekyll @raptor85 @breadandcircuses I’m not sure what answer you want. I mentioned up thread, it is important to work with you local government to make the improvements you want. It’s surprising how much change you can make happen just by writing your local council person, your mayor, your city council.

That same article mentions that the next 1/3 are within 2 miles. So that’s like 70% of the US bikeable for everyday needs.

cognitively accessible math Mar 14, 2024

@bluejekyll @raptor85 @breadandcircuses
Just because somethign is close does not mean you can safely access it without a car.
Do you understand that?

cognitively accessible math Mar 14, 2024

@bluejekyll @raptor85 @breadandcircuses I lived less than 2 miles from my junior high school but I would have had to cross an interstate *and* a major arterial to get there.

cognitively accessible math Mar 14, 2024

@bluejekyll @raptor85 @breadandcircuses now, if you knew about that little drainage tunnel....

Benjamin Fry Mar 14, 2024

@geonz @bluejekyll @raptor85 @breadandcircuses we’re not saying different things. Yes a lot of the US has horrible infrastructure, but it’s something that can change. They’re able to install safer infrastructure within months and get grants from the federal and many state governments to do it. It’s generally the will of the local community that stands in the way.

cognitively accessible math Mar 14, 2024

@bluejekyll @raptor85 @breadandcircuses (no we're not saying the same thing.)

cognitively accessible math Mar 14, 2024

@bluejekyll @raptor85 @breadandcircuses
It's rather painfully often not possible to do that. Good grief, it took about 5 years to get better signs and a crosswalk and a median almost big enough formy bike to pause at Main Street here.

cognitively accessible math Mar 14, 2024

@bluejekyll @raptor85 @breadandcircuses
On the third hand, though, I wish I knew the right rallying inspiration to get "community will" going; (sigh, do I mean "marketing," not "rallying inspiration" -- well, sort of...)
Get ebikes together :P

cognitively accessible math Mar 14, 2024

@bluejekyll @raptor85 @breadandcircuses and what is the 40% supposed to do?

@geonz @[email protected] @breadandcircuses It's victim blaming at it's finest, do people think everyone WANTS to be stuck in traffic commuting to work? but hey, why not, everyone should just quit their jobs and exclusively bike in -20 degree weather to the kwik trip living off fried chicken and oreos every day since it's the only store close enough. I'm sure people just trying to get by are the REAL problem and not the billion/million-aire classes forcing these conditions.

cognitively accessible math Mar 14, 2024

@raptor85 @breadandcircuses well some of 'em have to sell their car and do that (oh, grocery deserts too)... I can be car-free in this University Town but that is a privilege of circumstance.

Kim Spence-Jones 🇬🇧😷Mar 14, 2024

@geonz This. 👆

cognitively accessible math Mar 14, 2024

@bluejekyll @breadandcircuses and in the meantime a million times what I saved is being dumped into an estuary by an industry but hey!!! we have to "start" somewhere? They are finishing us.

Asariel Mar 13, 2024

@bluejekyll @breadandcircuses The problem is that we either would need a systemic solution or start going horseback to work. Puerto Rico is a good example of what going on with all this climate crisis.

Jenne Mar 13, 2024

@bluejekyll @breadandcircuses Way too many people i know - family, friends, colleagues - don’t want to be told. They want business as usual. There‘s enough information to act differently. If you want to. But people don‘t even start with the simple things.

Nicole Parsons Mar 13, 2024

@breadandcircuses

1. What voters can do, stop voting for fossil fuel funded fascists.

Tories. Republicans.

What consumers can do:
1. Get solar panels.
2. Get a heat pump.
3. Get building codes for better insulated buildings.
4. Fund an engineering student group to invent housing & transportation for a future without fossil fuels

cuan_knaggs Mar 13, 2024

@Npars01 on the construction and housing front much of that research has been done. it just needs to be applied. and i know here many building contractors will reject non-standard methods @breadandcircuses

Cavyherd Mar 13, 2024

@Npars01 @breadandcircuses

Would love to get a heatpump & a heatpump water heater. Unfortunately, that would eat two thirds of my life savings, so that's not going to happen without some robust gov't subsidies or some other miracle.

Pollinators Mar 14, 2024

@Npars01 @breadandcircuses. A nice list. Number Four is what all the governments should be doing. Greta Thunberg had it in The Climate Book, things to do. #gretathunberg, #solar.

VHG 🇪🇺🇺🇦Mar 14, 2024

@Npars01 @breadandcircuses add in European conservatives, libertarians and populists.

MattWhy Mar 14, 2024

@Npars01 @breadandcircuses Number three is the one to get active about locally
In Australia, no one should be building single glazed windows
But they do because councils wont make it a requirement

Ariaflame Mar 15, 2024

@andrijson @Npars01 @breadandcircuses And because double glazing here is Not Cheap.

Nicole Parsons Mar 15, 2024

@ariaflame @andrijson @breadandcircuses

Australia is awash in high quality silica to make glazing, why are double paned windows so expensive?

The answer: silicosis

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-25/asbestos-coal-gold-silica-mining-and-deadly-dust/102968642

How deadly dust from gold, coal, asbestos and silica plagues Australia

From coal to asbestos, there's a long and deadly history of dust in Australia. And some are arguing that the lessons of the past aren't being applied today.

ABC News

MattWhy Mar 16, 2024

@ariaflame @Npars01 @breadandcircuses Double glazing would add $2k to the build cost of a $300k (average) house.
Assume the build remains in place for 40 years, thats $50 a year
The energy savings from that decision will be far outweighed from the cost of extra capital and interest
Its expensive not to put it in

Ariaflame Mar 16, 2024

@andrijson @Npars01 @breadandcircuses Oh I agree absolutely that it should be done at the beginning. The recent building code change requiring 7 stars isn't yet fully deployed across Australia but may give some more impetus there. For those who already have homes it's harder to consider the inconvenience and expense to replace them.

MattWhy Mar 16, 2024

@ariaflame @Npars01 @breadandcircuses And I guess then you'd agree that if you are doing renovations, any window thats pulled out should be replaced with double glazing?
Having recently gone through a house renovation, I know the additional expenses involved are minor in the overall budget

Ariaflame Mar 16, 2024

@andrijson @Npars01 @breadandcircuses Absolutely.

Ariaflame Mar 16, 2024

@andrijson @Npars01 @breadandcircuses I've considered it, but it's a lot of effort and expense for not a huge increase in comfort in my personal case (and to be honest it's the whole effort/inconvenience is the worst of it). I already don't have any heating or cooling costs.

One World One People Mar 13, 2024

@breadandcircuses TWW: There are forces that shape this world and your place in the moment that you cannot perceive. *If the rate af temperature change is greater than almost any predicted what is the probability that the original premise was incorrect? OWOP

Rajnhildo Ursidino

evdonia_corner_emblem

@OWOP @breadandcircuses are you trying to start a cult on pleroma

One World One People Mar 18, 2024

@reinhilde @breadandcircuses @OWOP TWW: Language is the stories that we tell. It is a fluctuating blend of both creativity and song. When you tell of something it is of you, not of the listener and shows you creating an image and using your song to share it. *Hi, sorry I hadn’t seen your question sooner. It’s an insightful question and has the appropriate answer: yes and no. I feel that often people get obligated to a premise and will build proving models.

Rajnhildo Ursidino

evdonia_corner_emblem

@OWOP @breadandcircuses literally who are you

One World One People Mar 18, 2024

@reinhilde @breadandcircuses @OWOP TWW: Humility and generosity. Shield and spear. *Thanks for asking, I am literally water and stone. The four words above are at the core of how I live my life. I see a wonderful future for all people and the entire planet but we will have to overcome the bigotry and corruption that we’ve used and begin to repair the damage. Peace for yourself and those dear to you. OWOP

happycoyote12 Mar 13, 2024

@breadandcircuses Yes, for different reasons, but this is how I feel too. "I don't want your hope. I don't want you to be hopeful. I want you to panic. I want you to feel the fear I feel every day. And then I want you to act!"

Please donate to my fundraising campaigns. I feel fear. I feel panic.

Help, please.

Begging is not easy. I'm humiliated to resort to begging & pleading. Imagine how hopeless I must feel to do this. Sorry, so very sorry. I know others worse off. Must I be them?

Mark Mar 14, 2024

@breadandcircuses
Here’s where I am: I’m very tired of doomerism. And I feel even the latest and greatest graphic of Sea Ice Extent, Global Temp, Ocean Heat Content, Canadian Forest Fires—while important for some —is a bunch of doom.

Agree with @GretaThunberg : “I want you to act!”

We need more action, not more data and doomerism. Less “WE’RE IN A CRISIS!” and more “here are actions you can take today, both personally and at the macro policy level.”

Reemt Mar 14, 2024

@breadandcircuses @hessi the "I don't want you to be hopeful" sentiment leads to people not caring anymore. After all, if we’re doomed, there’s nothing that can be done anymore. Why should one care about the climate, if it’s fucked either way?

soc Mar 14, 2024

@breadandcircuses One has to keep reminding people that life is not a Hollywood movie; there is no guaranteed happy ending.

JW prince of CPH Mar 14, 2024

@breadandcircuses To be clear, I don't think that you - or Greta Thunberg - are wrong & I agree with you both. This disclaimer feels necessary before airing my view, that hope is misunderstood. Hope is not optimism - it's realizing that the situation is sh*t, and then doing something anyway.

Or, in Jane Fonda's words, hope is activism.

https://aeon.co/essays/true-hope-takes-a-hard-look-at-reality-then-makes-a-plan

True hope takes a hard look at reality, then makes a plan | Aeon Essays

Even when you know that prospects are grim, hope can help. It’s not just a feeling, but a way to step into the future

Aeon

Codhisattva Mar 14, 2024

@breadandcircuses “this century” is hopeful sounding. More like “in our lifetime”.

snowyfox Mar 14, 2024

.

Alexander Goeres 𒀯 Mar 14, 2024

@Kim Spence-Jones 🇬🇧😷
some of us do great things when paniced.
this is at best self delusional. when have you ever read stories or reports like this?

in the end she panicked and thus managed to open the complicated lock of the door that was in her way ..
panic is no helpful state of mind.

hexaheximal Mar 14, 2024

@breadandcircuses Have you ACTUALLY seen someone panic at these things though?

I know someone who is literally the definition of panicking at political things. He is constantly annoyed and/or depressed and keeps talking about how republicans are going to take over the world and we need to stop them.

Alexander Goeres 𒀯 Mar 15, 2024

@ToddZ but that is exactly not what thunberg was saying ...

I don't want your hope. I don't want you to be hopeful. I want you to panic. I want you to feel the fear I feel every day

ToddZ Ⓥ Mar 15, 2024

I’m saying you need to consider the context of the words, not just the dictionary meaning. This is a 16-year-old addressing world leaders at Davos. She’s being rhetorical and dramatic. Thunberg is not asking for a collective meltdown and disposal of rational thought. That’s not the action she’s modeling with her activism, either. She’s asking us to do the opposite of slowly boiling in a pot while hoping someone else will get us out.